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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

UN Special Rapporteur raises concerns about Scottish Gender reforms

98 replies

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 23/11/2022 10:15

https://spcommreports.ohchr.org/TMResultsBase/DownLoadPublicCommunicationFile?gId=27681

So many of the issues we have all been raising for example:

"While I commend the Government for listening to the voices of transwomen,
including organizations that represent them, I am concerned that the consultations for this proposal do not appear to have been sufficiently inclusive of other groups of women, most notably female victims of violence. It has been reported that five survivors of male violence approached the Scottish Parliament EHRCJ to speak in a private session about their concerns in relation to the Bill and their own experiences of self-exclusion. The convenor reportedly informed the group that the Committee did not have time to see them and to put their objections in writing.
I would like to recall the UK’s obligation to make sure that all processes that
affect the lives of all women and girls put them at the center of their deliberations, as well as its responsibility to take and enforce all measures to end violence against women. Second-guessing and questioning the needs of survivors of violence born female for single sex assistance and protection services is not victim-centered and ignores and undermines the survivor’s involuntary trauma, agency, and dignity.'"

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StillWeRise · 23/11/2022 10:36

this is excellent !
not sure what obligations the Scottish government has to listen, does anyone know?

GrrrrAReform · 23/11/2022 10:43

This very clearly articulates many, many arguments and points of concern regarding the Scottish Government's hasty and tunnel-vision approach to the GRA Reforms. I sincerely hope Sturgeon is reading it carefully.

I have not heard of a 'UN Rapporteur' - is this something the Scottish Government can ignore? Or will it be deemed 'not valid' or 'transphobic' and dismissed like the 5 survivors of male violence were dismissed?

LaBellina · 23/11/2022 10:46

It’s shameful that this obvious conclusion has to be shared to them by a UN Special Rapporteur but also a clear indication of how serious the human rights of girls and women have been violated.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 23/11/2022 10:55

The Scottish Government can plough ahead if they wish but at least this has stripped away any veneer of fairness and reasonableness.

I thought the points around “re traumatisation” of victims were really powerful.
As were the points around religion.

The UN have said what the Scottish Government is doing is harming the rights of women and ignores well founded concerns. Hard to keep up the pretence that it is just a couple of troublesome women in coloured scarves that are creating a fuss.

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eurochick · 23/11/2022 11:06

"Other groups of women" made me bristle but otherwise this is excellent.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 23/11/2022 11:14

eurochick · 23/11/2022 11:06

"Other groups of women" made me bristle but otherwise this is excellent.

I agree. On the other hand it does make it harder for people to dismiss it as anti-trans. Even on a broadly inclusive approach, the Scottish Reforms are not fair.

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ResisterRex · 23/11/2022 11:15

The Scottish government seemed to disregard Cass in favour of international views and evidence. I wonder if this is the wrong kind of international view or evidence?

ArabellaScott · 23/11/2022 11:17

Wow.

The Scotgov have ignored EHRC, ignored Cass - are they also going to ignore the UN?

FunnyTalks · 23/11/2022 11:20

"The survivor's involuntary trauma"

I am relieved to see an apparent awareness of how trauma works. That it is our bodies' reaction, outside of conscious thought.

This is what is mocked and dismissed over and over again by MRA /TRA s, slurring survivors of male violence as man-haters or transphobic.

DameMaud · 23/11/2022 11:29

Agreed that this strikes a very reasoned and inclusive balance; points that will be hard to define as in anyway transphobic. Very heartening to read. Can anyone explain how this works/what weight this carries or impact it may have?

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 23/11/2022 11:41

I picked it up from Joanna Cherry's twitter as she retweeted the original UN SR tweet. I can't imagine she won't bring it up in the Scottish Parliament.

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DameMaud · 23/11/2022 11:43

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 23/11/2022 11:41

I picked it up from Joanna Cherry's twitter as she retweeted the original UN SR tweet. I can't imagine she won't bring it up in the Scottish Parliament.

Thanks Chaz. Will be interesting.. or even more infuriating watching this unfold

ArabellaScott · 23/11/2022 12:18

I don't know how often MPs are actually in the Scottish parliament, or when/if they ever get a chance to speak on Scottish issues.

inkjet · 23/11/2022 12:22

It’s good to see that the UN isn’t totally captured.

ArabellaScott · 23/11/2022 12:24

It's surprisingly hard to find out these fairly basic mechanisms. As far as I know, MPs talk in Westminster and are supposed to largely stick to UK issues, while MSPs are more supposed to deal with Scottish specific issues.

Any clarity on how MPs and MSPs interact woudl be welcome!

The Scottish govt website had a 'page not found' explainer, which was not very useful.

The only other thing I found was this:

spice-spotlight.scot/2018/04/05/spice-enquiries-faq/

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 23/11/2022 12:31

Yes - perhaps it would be better to say - I am sure she will make sure it gets raised in the Scottish Parliament

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Needmoresleep · 23/11/2022 12:35

UN Special Rapporteurs vary a lot. Some are excellent. People who go into war zones and produce useful, informed and constructive reports. Then there are others who turn up banging a particular drum. Over the years the UK has received some extraordinary and unwarranted criticism on various issues, and I think there was one about a year back on Ukraine that read as if it might have been written by Putin's BFF.

It is useful that the UN is taking an interest. The report deserves to be read. Hopefully at some point the UN might consider a resolution on women's sex based rights, though with the US paying a large part of the UN budget that is less likely.

Whereareyourshoes · 23/11/2022 13:28

Thank you for sharing the report.

Hoardasurass · 23/11/2022 15:11

Well that's a nice piece of evidence for the up coming court cases against the gra reform

BellaAmorosa · 23/11/2022 15:34

eurochick · 23/11/2022 11:06

"Other groups of women" made me bristle but otherwise this is excellent.

I was about to post the very same thing!

BellaAmorosa · 23/11/2022 15:36

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 23/11/2022 11:14

I agree. On the other hand it does make it harder for people to dismiss it as anti-trans. Even on a broadly inclusive approach, the Scottish Reforms are not fair.

Rips away the fig leaf.

Watermonster · 23/11/2022 16:42

reminds me of the online articles (links below) a few years ago by survivors of male violence when the GRA act was up for review..Even more relevant today as ( like the Scottish gov) some councils (eg Brighton, Bristol) have excluded vulnerable women eg rape victims from accessing single sex abuse support at all
fovas.wordpress.com/
and
fovas.wordpress.com/response-to-stonewall-2/

Whereareyourshoes · 23/11/2022 17:16

Need this to still be seen above the indyref distraction. SNP/Greens and Lib Dems don’t get to sneak through GRA reform while pretending there is no negative impact on women and children. All the evidence is there. They have seen it, they know it, if it passes, they demonstrate they simply don’t care.

💚🤍💜

flyingbuttress43 · 23/11/2022 18:38

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63730621

ResisterRex · 23/11/2022 18:49

Also in The Times:

SNP gender reforms ‘dangerous for women’, UN official warns

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d07e450c-6b28-11ed-b361-431d7dcc7c0e?shareToken=f2d1d1e45572765a342efc7c89c58102

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