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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 18

995 replies

ickky · 22/06/2022 20:26

The Tribunal started on 25th April, witness testimony concluded on the 26th May. Closing arguments for council was on the 20th June.

There was also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC )
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case

Panel = Judge Goodman, Mr M. Reuby and Ms Darmas

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12

Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13

Thread 14 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556407-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-14

Thread 15 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556803-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-15

Thread 16 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4557036-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-16

Thread 17 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4561850-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-17

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, 25 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Cathryn McGahey - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - Head clerk at GCC (24 May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing (25 May)
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC (25 May)
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge (26 May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers (26 May)
Closing arguments for AB, GCC, and SW (20 June)

Allison Bailey's

Witness Statement

allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Witness-Statement-of-Allison-Bailey.pdf

Supplementary Statement

allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/C-Supplementary-Witness-Statement.pdf

Closing Statement

allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/CLOSING-SUBMISSIONS-FINAL.pdf

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
MythicalReasonableTwitterUser · 27/07/2022 14:19

Oh, how I wish we had been allowed to record footage of the proceedings. It would be very instructive for companies willing to fork over cash to Stonewall if they could see it. They really do make the best arguments against themselves if they have to attempt straight answers to straight questions.

IDidntKnowItWasAParty · 27/07/2022 14:20

I read that to 'Fairytale of New York' in my head. It very nearly scans.
Love it 😂

EdgeOfACoin · 27/07/2022 14:20

LK1972 · 27/07/2022 14:17

Those were the rumours, although we're still awaiting RMW's next appearance on this board, so we would ask to confirm either way GrinGrinGrin

RMW represented Stonewall rather than GCC, I think?

Xenia · 27/07/2022 14:21

Someone has probably posted this Law Society Gazette summary above but here it is. www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/chambers-discriminated-against-barrister-in-gender-critical-row/5113252.article

WookeyHole · 27/07/2022 14:22

howdoesatoastermaketoast · 27/07/2022 12:27

GCC suing SW would be popcornworthy!

I would LOVE to see this. Presumably there are some mighty pissed off legal minds at GCC right now.

LeniGray · 27/07/2022 14:22

I’m so thrilled for Allison, this result came in much quicker than I expected! Excellent news 👏👏👏

I’m going to make a brew and sit and read through the judgment … the bundles ‘seemed to have been randomly thrown together’. Hmmm … quite. 🫣

Rainbowshit · 27/07/2022 14:24

This is huge isn't it?

Gender identity theory has been found to be detrimental to lesbians and women.

TERF likened to a racial slur.

Stonewall think they have won, but boy have they lost.

SummerLobelia · 27/07/2022 14:24

WookeyHole · 27/07/2022 14:22

I would LOVE to see this. Presumably there are some mighty pissed off legal minds at GCC right now.

I am sure they will be assauged by the volume of flowers and cards coming their way to Allison

(Sorry. An occasional foray into Schadenfreud is one of my least attractive traits).

TheKeatingFive · 27/07/2022 14:26

Who or what is RMW?

Am I allowed to ask?

pieami · 27/07/2022 14:28

is Alison liable for Stonewall's court fees?

SummerLobelia · 27/07/2022 14:28

Robin Moira White.

Transwoman barrister who likes to come onto these boards and tell us all off for our wrong think.

She was supporting Stonewall- I think pro bono?

LK1972 · 27/07/2022 14:28

@EdgeOfACoin you could be absolutely right, and RMW is entirely uninvolved in any of the bundle shambles.

I am looking forward to the learned explanation of why we're still wrong about everything we say, as so eloquently displayed by that poster on this board.

In fact, I think it would be great for Mumsnet to organize a discussion panel on employment discrimination law, where all views will undoubtedly be represented and argued for, following this monumental ruling Smile

It would give EVERYONE an excellent platform to respond to the questions we have, so surely a public invite could not be declined without losing face? 😇

ReneBumsWombats · 27/07/2022 14:29

Rainbowshit · 27/07/2022 14:24

This is huge isn't it?

Gender identity theory has been found to be detrimental to lesbians and women.

TERF likened to a racial slur.

Stonewall think they have won, but boy have they lost.

I don't think the tribunal found that gender identity theory is detrimental to women and lesbians, just that it is a protected belief. And that "terf" used to be a neutral descriptor but has now been entirely taken over as a slur. So you can't get away with saying you didn't mean it as one, much as you can't claim any more that "P*" is just short for Pakistani.

EdgeOfACoin · 27/07/2022 14:29

TheKeatingFive · 27/07/2022 14:26

Who or what is RMW?

Am I allowed to ask?

Robin Moira White. Barrister. Represented Stonewall in these proceedings. First transgender barrister in the UK, I believe (mtf).

Often turns up on these boards to, um, engage constructively with the posters here.

Mumsnut · 27/07/2022 14:30

"Gender identity theory has been found to be detrimental to lesbians and women."

I don't think this is quite accurate, is it? Isn't it rather that the belief that gender identity theory is harmful to lesbians and women, is protected?

Thelnebriati · 27/07/2022 14:30

I don't understand the Law Society Gazette summary; I thought that if you won the claim for direct discrimination, the claim for secondary (indirect) discrimination is dropped?

Notmanybroadbeans · 27/07/2022 14:33

ReneBumsWombats · 27/07/2022 14:29

I don't think the tribunal found that gender identity theory is detrimental to women and lesbians, just that it is a protected belief. And that "terf" used to be a neutral descriptor but has now been entirely taken over as a slur. So you can't get away with saying you didn't mean it as one, much as you can't claim any more that "P*" is just short for Pakistani.

Yes, I've seen that "detrimental" snippet posted a lot on Twitter as if they are the judge's own words, but it is just her description of Allison's protected belief. The judge does not give an opinion on the merits of either side's beliefs.

Loved her comments about the bundle and about the support dog, though. Well, she didn't even have to say anything about the support dog, it speaks (barks? Oh God, not a dog whistle, we hope) for itself.

LK1972 · 27/07/2022 14:33

*the saintly feeling in the emoji is coming from hopefully putting this in ways that will not get me deleted.

Also, Mumsnet, are the strict language restrictions on this board still quite as necessary, following this, and Maya's decision, are they being reviewed by anyone?

WookeyHole · 27/07/2022 14:38

I'm so glad the ET didn't mince their words over the state of the bundle. I reminds me of a naughty child's school report.

LK1972 · 27/07/2022 14:42

I didn't realise that (from the article above): 'Within minutes of the judgment, her friend JK Rowling tweeted: 'Allison Bailey is a heroine to me and innumerable other feminists for refusing to abandon her beliefs and principles in the fact of intimidation and discrimination. Congratulations', adding: 'And I couldn’t be prouder of my friend'', how lovely 😊

They are both heroines, and we are lucky to have them! Flowers

zanahoria · 27/07/2022 14:43

This is going to cost GCC way more than the damages.

Losing this case will be terrible for their reputation.

A law firm taking legal advice from a bunch of numpties?

How did they get there?

PronounssheRa · 27/07/2022 14:43

pieami · 27/07/2022 14:28

is Alison liable for Stonewall's court fees?

IANAL, but my understanding is that costs are often not awarded in ET cases.

So Allison is unlikely to have GCC pay her costs, but also stonewall are unlikely to have Allison pay theirs.

frazzled1 · 27/07/2022 14:49

Allison Bailey's press release. What a woman Flowers
allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/2022-07-22-Press-Release-Publication-copy.docx.pdf
Press Release
For Immediate Release
27 July 2022
JK ROWLING’S FRIEND ALLISON BAILEY WINS HER CASE:
GARDEN COURT CHAMBERS DISCRIMINATED AGAINST GENDER
CRITICAL BARRISTER
Author JK Rowling’s friend Allison Bailey has won her discrimination case against Garden Court Chambers. An Employment Tribunal has unanimously found that Miss Bailey, a barrister, lesbian, prominent gender critical campaigner and founding member of LGB Alliance, was discriminated against and victimised by her barristers’ chambers on the basis of her gender critical beliefs.
The case, heard over nearly six weeks earlier in the summer, was one of the most keenly watched of the year. Over 30 witnesses were cross examined in a trial conducted entirely over video live-link that attracted hundreds of online observers and many thousands more followed the live tweeting of
the case.
The litigation was part of a pushback by gender critical feminists against attempts to replace biological sex with notions of self-identified gender identity.
Miss Bailey’s claim centered on allegations that she was singled out for attack by Stonewall and her chambers because of public statements on the subjects of sex, gender, and Stonewall’s intolerant and aggressive method of campaigning. In October 2019 Miss Bailey tweeted to announce the launch of
LGB Alliance, a charity which she helped set up to defend the rights of people who are same sex – rather and not same-gender - attracted. This elicited an onslaught of abuse against her and the new organisation.
In a detailed and wide-ranging judgment, Miss Bailey was not successful on all counts. But the Tribunal agreed on the central complaint that she raised: that, as a consequence of being a gender critical feminist, she was discriminated against and victimised by her colleagues.
A separate claim against Stonewall was not upheld. Although the Tribunal accepted that Miss Bailey’s belief that “gender theory as proselytised by [Stonewall] is severely detrimental to women for numerous reasons” and is a protected philosophical belief, it did not find that Stonewall had satisfied the legal test of “instructing, causing or influencing” the unlawful discrimination which it found Miss Bailey suffered.
Among the findings of the judgment were that:

  1. In publishing a statement that Miss Bailey was being investigated for breaches of her
regulator’s code, Garden Court discriminated against her on the basis of her protected beliefs and victimised her as a consequence of protected acts she had made.
  1. In upholding Stonewall’s complaint against Miss Bailey, Garden Court discriminated against
her on the basis of her protected beliefs and victimised her as a consequence of protected acts she had made.
  1. The belief that “Gender theory as proselytized by the First Respondent is severely
detrimental” to both women and to lesbians is a protected philosophical belief, attracting the protections of the Equality Act 2010.
  1. Such was the oppressiveness of Garden Court’s actions against her, the Tribunal awarded
aggravated damages, which are only awarded where a discriminator’s actions are particularly unnecessary, high handed or oppressive. Miss Bailey said: “This is a vindication for all those who, like me, object to the erasure of biological sex, of women, and of same sex attraction as material realities. It represents judicial recognition of the abuse waged against us. “This case was never about money. I did not win everything, but I won the most important thing: I have brought Stonewall’s methods into the public eye, and I have shown them for what they now are. “One of the proudest days of my life was being accepted into Garden Court Chambers. It was in the vanguard of sort of law I set out to practice: socially conscious, enlightened and determined to represent those who most need the law’s protection, encapsulated in its motto: “Do right, fear no-one. “But its assumption of moral righteousness led it to classify gender critical feminism as bigotry, and me, by extension, as opposed to their ethos. On both counts it was wrong. “I have spent nearly twenty years at Garden Court. Even among some of those who are named in the judgment there are many whom I respect and admire. Like many organisations that have mistakenly taken Stonewall’s proselytising as gospel, Garden Court has taken a wrong turn. But they can turn back. This judgment will help that to happen. “I am disappointed not to have won my claim against Stonewall. But this should not obscure Stonewall’s role in creating the environment in which discrimination against gender critical women and lesbians has been allowed to flourish. “It never occurred to me as I was building my career that the organisation which would prove my biggest obstacle would be a charity set up ostensibly to protect people like me. “Stonewall declared there were ‘good lesbians’ and ‘bad lesbians’, the latter including any lesbian that dared to hold that sex is real and immutable and the crucial criteria for being same-sex attracted. Although I haven’t won my claim against them, it is still my belief that they have declared open season on lesbians like me and on women and men who disagree with its commercial lobbying goals. The Tribunal has recognised that my belief in this regard is a protected belief. I hope this acts as a wake-up call to the government and Charity Commission. “Over the past decade, Stonewall has twisted the definition of same sex attraction, redefining it, commodifying it and trying to sell it back to lesbian, gay and bisexual people. In the process, it has tried to define homosexuality out of existence. But we aren’t buying Stonewall’s product. It has accidentally and ironically achieved what it was set up to do: it has united and empowered same sex attracted people to fight for our rights once again. “This case was funded by donations from thousands of people who recognised the wrong that was being done to me and others like me. It is testament to the power and resolve of ordinary people: straight, lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transsexual. Women in particular have been slandered as bigoted, harassed and defamed as transphobic and worse, simply for asserting our lawful rights and advocating for proper safeguarding. “–We are none of the things Stonewall and others have called us; we are in the vanguard of a powerful and necessary movement that is turning the tide on gender identity ideology.” ENDS Notes to Editors:
  1. Allison Bailey is not giving interviews or doing any further press.
  2. JK Rowling and Allison Bailey high-res photograph:
i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/05/05/15/57447881-10786161-image-a-24_16517605958 07.jpg
  1. News articles about Allison Bailey & additional high-res photographs are available here:
nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2 Fsearch%3Fq%3Dallison%2Bbailey%26client%3Dsafari%26source%3Dlnms%26tbm%3Dnws% 26sa%3DX%26ved%3D2ahUKEwi2rYWvw45AhUbHcAKHbZ0BJYQAUoAXoECAIQAw%26biw %3D640%26bih%3D438%26dpr%3D2&data=05%7C01%7C%7C3e5e4292f8564c089d3a08da 6cd02e73%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637941938632656550%7 CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiL CJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=hP825ypgP6qhwzKUZi4p9C7liG5iRCFPgTZBr6 q2jWQ%3D&reserved=0
  1. Allison Bailey remains a criminal barrister at Garden Court Chambers, which she joined in
2004. Her full biographical history is contained in her witness statement, which is found at allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Witness-Statement-of-Allison-Baile y.pdf
  1. Garden Court has 42 days to apply to the Employment Appeal Tribunal for permission to
appeal this judgment.
  1. For technical questions on the judgment and its significance for employment law in the UK,
email Peter Daly at Doyle Clayton Solicitors [email protected]. No on-record comments will be given.
Sophoclesthefox · 27/07/2022 14:49

Working my way through the judgement, this afternoon is a (glorious, worthwhile) write off Grin

I like this bit

We concluded it was not possible to separate Stonewall as a campaigning organisation from the gender theory with which the claimant disagreed. Her objection to Stonewall “proselytising” gender self-identity theory is about the difference between her belief and theirs. To separate them would be like holding that homosexuals may lack belief in evangelical Christian teaching about sinfulness of same-sex orientation, but not be protected when they speak against a church institution, or that reformed Protestants are not protected when they denounce the Church of Rome as the whore of Babylon or the Pope as the Antichrist.

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