Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 18

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April, witness testimony concluded on the 26th May. Closing arguments for council was on the 20th June.

There was also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC )
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case

Panel = Judge Goodman, Mr M. Reuby and Ms Darmas

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12

Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13

Thread 14 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556407-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-14

Thread 15 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556803-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-15

Thread 16 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4557036-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-16

Thread 17 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4561850-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-17

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, 25 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Cathryn McGahey - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - Head clerk at GCC (24 May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing (25 May)
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC (25 May)
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge (26 May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers (26 May)
Closing arguments for AB, GCC, and SW (20 June)

Allison Bailey's

Witness Statement

allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Witness-Statement-of-Allison-Bailey.pdf

Supplementary Statement

allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/C-Supplementary-Witness-Statement.pdf

Closing Statement

allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/CLOSING-SUBMISSIONS-FINAL.pdf

Why did she not win against Stonewall? Was it something technical?

It makes sense to me. Anyone is free to tell you anything at all, the responsibility for the consequences of following that advice rests with the organisation, not the advisor.

Unless we're talking about specific professions, where the arrangement is expected and legally bound to provide sound advice? Stonewall aren't legal experts, clearly.

Although you'd think GCC would have understood that better.

Although the Tribunal accepted that Miss Bailey’s belief that “gender theory as proselytised by [Stonewall] is severely detrimental to women for numerous reasons” and is a protected philosophical belief, it did not find that Stonewall had satisfied the legal test of “instructing, causing or influencing” the unlawful discrimination which it found Miss Bailey suffered.

can someone explain this part to me? They literally did instruct it, via the email from Metcalf. They accepted responsibility for Metcalf’s actions.

Do they have to be in a position of authority to count as “instructing”?

Also I would like to express my thanks to Allison on behalf of my DDs who have now been given extra/renewed courage to speak out at their workplaces with less fear of discrimination by their employers.

It won't stop the amount of shit they get from some of their colleagues though but the tide does seem to be turning. (My DDs themselves have actually become radicalised by Mumsnet total GC feminists - which is a complete circle from the brainwashing they had at school).

From Allisons statement "Women in particular have been slandered as bigoted, harassed and defamed as transphobic and worse, simply for asserting our lawful rights and advocating for proper safeguarding “–We are none of the things Stonewall and others have called us; we are in the vanguard of a powerful and necessary movement that is turning the tide on gender identity ideology.”

You excellent woman Allison

.

Has RMW been on here yet?

only up to para 32 but the judge is really scathing of the respondents’ counsel. I would be feeling very embarrassed if I were them, quite apart from the fact they lost.

I'm going to take this statement from the judgement as a hat-tip to all of us vipers

I'm glad to see that personnel today have reported this. HR departments need to be aware of it.

www.personneltoday.com/hr/allison-bailey-gender-critical/

Sexdoesmatter I haven't seen RMW round here for a long time

Or for Garden Court's legal acumen!

if I was a business I would not wish to be sued based on their [Stonewall's] erroneous advice.

I wonder if there will be a little tsunami building up even now, with people who have been bullied out of jobs etc but who felt that they didn't dare go forward because they didn't stand a chance and couldn't afford a loss?

Good point, @SpindleInTheWind

@KittenKong I understand it, IANAL:

1. The employer is free to get advice wherever they like, the company providing the advice is NOT legally liable for any discrimination that results from company policy adopting their advice

1. IF the company policy results in discrimination, then the employer can't say 'we were just following this advice', it's every employer's duty not do discriminate in their company policy

The moral of the story: don't outsource your EDI to Stonewall, do your own bloody work!

*As I understand it, grrr

And then they ran away with their pants on fire . . .

I wonder how, or indeed if, the BBC is going to report on this..

Amazing! So pleased. Trying to. Read it all now.

My memory is so bad, am I right in thinking Mermaids are currently pursuing some court case against LGB Alliance? To try to get them stripped of their charitable status?

With Allison being one of the co founders I wonder what this ruling means for that case?

BRILLIANT news! (Not the stonewall bit, the win) so so happy about this! Well done Allison, Ben and of course the amazing support wren

Para 19 - Pure gold😂

I think this is my favourite line of the judgment:

"TERF stands for Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist, and while it
started as a descriptive term, in current usage it is offensive - as in the slide
from “Pakistani” to “P*"."

(I've starred the last word of the quote so I don't get banned!)

Judicial recognition that abusive slurs to women with gender critical beliefs are analogous to offensive racial slurs. Useful to anyone whose employer is minded to use that word.

I'd love to see a song made out of all the catchphrases from the hearing - it was almost Christmas, it was 1am, I was on a big case, I was travelling, I had my children in the car, I reversed into a bin, she was my friend!, I don't know how Twitter works, oh here we go! 😂

They're probably still adding extra bells and whistles