Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 17

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April, witness testimony concluded on the 26th May. Closing arguments for council will be on the 20th June. I don't know if the existing links and pins will work. I will email nearer the time to check.

If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access.
Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 20th June 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12

Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13

Thread 14 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556407-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-14

Thread 15 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556803-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-15

Thread 16 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4557036-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-16

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, 25 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Cathryn McGahey - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - Head clerk at GCC (24 May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing (25 May)
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC (25 May)
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge (26 May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers (26 May)

To Come

Closing arguments for AB, GCC, and SW (20 June)

Sorry if this has already been answered, but when is the judgement? and will it too be live and available to watch?

I think the judgement is usually a document and no idea when it will be Maya's tribunal said 2 months and it's been 3 and this was a much more complex case

Thanks to all the support vipers for their insight and humour, to ickky for excellent threadkeeping and to Allison, should she ever come here, for her courage. With luck and a following wind I think we should have the judgment by Christmas.

Immediately followed by the request to appeal.

Thank you everyone for informing and entertaining those of us who couldn’t watch live, especially @ickky.

Thanks to ickky, and for the fabulous commentary on here.

But they've got to have grounds that the tribunal erred in law. I don't think EJG is the type to leave it open to getting kicked upstairs.

Gutted I couldn't get back in but pleased I was there for most of the deliberations.

Would love it if the Legal Vipers on this thread would pass comment on the summations and their strength?

Thank you one and all. I had to duck out for the very last part of BC's submission and the panel questions and last statements from claimants barristers. Looks like it was a race to the finish for MR: Fingers crossed the judgement delivered is fair and in Allison's favour. The judge deserves a medal.

Does anyone know if the Forstater judgement timing was in any way reliant on the completion of this ET process? Are we expecting the result shortly, or are they not related at all?

But they've got to have grounds that the tribunal erred in law. I don't think EJG is the type to leave it open to getting kicked upstairs.

No, I agree, and I think that's why the MF judgement is taking so very long to make it as watertight as possible, but it will inevitably be tried.

Phew, thanks all - couldn't follow live so have just caught up with this thread and will be downloading what I can.

Genuinely appalled if SW have said they "do NOT reclassify sex with gender and has NOT reclassified homosexuality as same SEX to same Gender attraction."

I was wondering about this because the SW submission seemed so odd and threatening (and the part about how the witnesses were treated was simply untrue.)

IANAL, I did some Googling out of curiosity. I think that weird bit of their closing statement attacking the ET was laying the groundwork for a claim that the judge was biased, which would be potential grounds for appeal. They seemed to be trying to paint the picture that the public attention the case got made the judge less objective.

redmans.co.uk/insights/bias-in-the-employment-tribunal-a-quick-guide/

Really hope this isn't a thing that would actually happen. That link says that 'bias' alone isn't strong grounds for an appeal.

Shall we open the book now on the fox killer getting involved if it doesn't go SW's way?

Just catching up on the day’s proceedings, thank you all for the commentary and insights.

And does anyone know a postal address for sending a card to Allison? What an incredible woman.

Just caught up, thanks everyone and @ickky and the support bestiary. All the best to Allison. Well done BC (I do hope he's GC). Confusion to SW.

C/o Garden Court Chambers? 😬

Either that or identify the loss as a win. After all, isn't it all about re-framing your trauma?

Perhaps someone could instinctively pull their small child close to them and cover the child's eyes with their palm - and a dropped teddy perhaps?

I bet IO would be only too happy to hand over this poisoned chalice of a case to kimono boy. 👘 🦊

'I remember the phone call because I crashed my car into a bin' would be almost funny if it weren't for her children being inside the vehicle.

A claim of bias is just utter nonsense. There isn't a single, solitary scrap of evidence to support a claim that there was even a 'possibility' of bias. Even that requires something as concrete as a judge knowing one of the witnesses or having made extreme and unbalanced comments. All the SW bollocks about AB making points on the stand is just political DARVO for the press. I'd be willing to bet it'll appear quoted at length but self identifying as a court report in PN this week.

Well I wondered about that but it seems a bit weird to send one there, all things considered!

It’s also got me wondering what exactly her status there is atm. I mean, has she been working since she first brought the claim? I can’t imagine it would be anything other than very difficult - but if she’s not, how has she been surviving?

And obvs presumably she hasn’t been able to work while the tribunal has been sitting. That’s a lot of lost income.

Just another way this whole thing has made life so, so difficult for her. She really embodies the word fortitude.

Ikr!

@RoaringtoLangClegintheDark : Allison said in her evidence that she'd been on sabbatical since last September, I think it was. Yes, how is she surviving?

I didn't read the submissions, not very good at listening and reading at the same time, so hadn't known about what Stonewall wrote. What a shower.