Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 11

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.
You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)

To come?

Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, to continue on 25th May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge.
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing

It says in her statement she was contacted by Stephanie Harrison.

EJ peeved with AH again.

Yes indirect discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

Contacted by Stephanie Harrison, I see.

This is just straight out of the TRA playbook. All of it.

Nancy Kelly said that lesbians were sexual racists.

Calling someone discriminatory for not sleeping with you is the very essence of coercion.

BC - shut your face, Mr H.

I may be paraphrasing!

Slap down to Mr Hochauser…

BC slaps down AH brilliantly!

BC and EJ are both pissed off with AH talking over BV

Exactly this. I hope this is obvious to all parties here.

YES, BC should reference this point.

What is absolutely fascinating here is that witnesses are genuinely being challenged on an intellectual and moral level about their beliefs and the basis on which they hold them. Usually in a witness stand you expect to see a parade of people being challenged about their recollections of facts and what conclusions can be drawn from those facts, or what their opinion actually was at a particular time. That's all going on here as well of course. But there is a level above that about their opinions/beliefs about another person on a moral level. And it seems that some of the witnesses actually do potentially have a moment of realisation about how their beliefs about Allison and what she was saying could actually have been wrong, once they turn their minds properly to the moral issues that underpin them (well once Ben turns their mind to those issues for them!). But then what would/could they do with that even if they do finally understand? Say they concede they were wrong? Do they then become a hostile witness? Would it make any difference to the outcome of the case?

CMcG giving great example of coercion by shaming in bringing up apartheid and comparing sexual orientation to racism. That is exactly the sort of pressure that is being put on lesbians. Hope EJ notes that.

It's horrifying that Allison, an actual lesbian objecting to homophobia, was investigated by a biased woman with this revolting attitude.

She didn't stand a chance with this lot, did she? Disgraceful.

Yes, Morgan Page did actually do that and AB is absolutely, unequivocally correct (from this reasonable member of the reading public).

What??

Is there any dispute that MP held the workshop??

Back from my exercise class and just caught up with the thread! Absolutely raging at CMcG! What a fecking lesbophobic halfwit!!!

Can you imagine being stuck on a table with Mr Hochhauser at a wedding, say?

AH whining about interruptions.

Hello Kettle - this is the Pot - You're black!

Yes anyone could screenshot, it's ridiculous.

That, and it's normally really easy to re-enable download on a site that has it disabled (not that I have done this, to be quite clear. I'm invested but not 6000 pages invested.) People are restricted from sharing it anyway. I can't see that the extra technical hoops being jumped through to "prevent" download are serving any real purpose and they're still preventing people having access to the material.

Hear hear

Thing is though, it is apparently women who can't be allowed to have the right to their own autonomy. Are there workshops to 'coerce away the gay' of men, or are they trying to have gay men accede to these sort of demands?

Again, it is misogyny ( in my opinion). Even wrt people who are same sex attracted. Not full humans, you see.

BC finished, IO to cross

Ah, SW have woken up

IO only has ONE question for CM LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

One solitary Q from IO.