Sonia O'Sullivan "Transgender athletes cannot be allowed to compete in women's sport"

[OstrichFeathers]

I've always been a big fan of Sonia O'Sullivan, she seems a knowledgeable, kind and fun person. I'm delighted to see her coming out firmly here. She has skirted around it a bit before, so it's good to see her so decisive.

www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/sonia-o-sullivan-transgender-athletes-cannot-be-allowed-to-compete-in-women-s-sport-1.4834586

I'm so pleased she has said it's inadequate to allow male transgender athletes to compete in female competitions but to have their times/scores 'not count'.

Nobody wants to watch a race with two or three people at the front who are not going to be the winners. How was that ever going to work in practice?

It's not complicated. If someone is not female they should not be racing/lifting/jumping/throwing against, females.

Nothing is stopping them entering male competitions.

I came on here to see if it has been posted. It really is great to see. I’m waiting for the inevitable other side’ piece from the usual woke opinion writers.

This Sonia O'Sullivan who won an Olympic silver medal the year after giving birth?
www.google.com/amp/s/www.the42.ie/athletes-returning-to-sport-after-pregnancy-5319128-Jan2021/%3famp=1

I'd say she's under absolutely no illusions about the importance of biological sex. Absolutely amazing runner.

It's great to hear more experts talking about this in black and white terms. There is no middle ground where some male people can compete against women with a bit of fiddling at the edges. Sport should remain segregated by sex for all the obvious reasons it was segregated by sex in the first place.

For me the only solution is to front up on the matter, not sit on the fence here, and decide that transgender athletes cannot be allowed into women’s events. We need to be certain about this

I am glad she is blunt about this and not getting drawn into discussions about testosterone levels or whatever

I was so happy to see this earlier, and surprised the the Irish Times actually published it!
The lack of any kind of visible discussion in Ireland has been depressing so this feels positive.

The trouble is that it has always been a slippery slope.

First only XX athletes could compete, then the rules changed to allow for gender reassignment individuals, and then the rules changed again to allow men who reduced their testosterone levels (no surgery, no oestrogen), and people are arguing that even a limit on testosterone shouldn't be required.

This is what happens when you go from a straight-forward rule to making allowances and exceptions.

The article had comments open when it was published online this morning, all nine that I saw supportive of what O'Sullivan is saying. They removed them after about an hour.

Some reaction on Twitter: twitter.com/IrishTimesSport/status/1506907427446222850

And Newstalk broadcast a half-hour interview with Ross Tucker about balancing "fairness vs inclusivity" in women's sport on Off The Ball on Tuesday that O'Sullivan refers to in the IT piece, it is here and has comments open:

Yes, InvisibleDragon, she's an absolute legend.

Interesting the comments were removed, I was surprised not to see any at all. I think Fintan O'Toole is close to getting it and I'm sure Roisin Ingle does, which is why she's said nothing either way. Hopefully Sonia will lead the IT pack too.

Apparently Britain [or Terf Island as it's now being called online] is "unsafe" for transexuals these days. Not sure what they think is going to happen to them? Personally I'll be wearing the badge with pride.

www.opendemocracy.net/en/5050/bbc-nolan-trans-lgbtiq/

It's very good! Though there's one odd use of "gender" in the middle where it's clearly referring to sex, which is a bit jarring - may have been editorial though?

@Imnotafemistbut It's the same old story, claim something makes you feel "unsafe" to get said thing banned. Stop lobby groups from being investigated by claiming that the report makes you feel "unsafe".

That's a great article - well done Sonia. Very measured tone and really shows she knows what she's talking about. Bet there'll be a horrible backlash though - because there always is.

Well done, Sonia. Each time a woman braves the onslaught, she makes it a bit easier for the next woman to do the same.

Womens sports are for females, female bodied people, possessors of two X chromosomes only, and there is no shame at all in saying so. The literal reason we have womens sports is that we don’t stand a chance of winning (or staying safe in some sports) when we compete against male bodies.

Let’s get men standing up to welcome transwomen into their sports, and ensure that any transphobia is immediately clamped down on with the same force used to shut women up when we complain about male bodies in womens sports, eh?

[quote BootsAndRoots]@Imnotafemistbut It's the same old story, claim something makes you feel "unsafe" to get said thing banned. Stop lobby groups from being investigated by claiming that the report makes you feel "unsafe".[/quote]
Exactly. Very well summarised. What exactly do they mean "unsafe" anyway? Where's the threat FFS?

Just Wikied her record . 1 World gold at 5k. 2 World Cross Country golds ( same day!) 3 European golds and 1 Olympic silver. And lots more besides. She is sporting royalty in Ireland. Bring it on.

Really pleased to see this article.

The Irish Times has not provided a forum for debate & discussion so far. Recently Emer McLysaght had a piece, ostensibly about racism, then slipped into 'cancel culture' and the last paragraph referred to Graham Linehan

www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/emer-mclysaght-then-it-happened-the-racist-slur-rolled-off-his-tongue-so-easily-1.4814377

It was so irritating to see a matter of significance just shoehorned into the end of a piece like this.

The Sunday Indo, tho a shockingly bad paper, has had some excellent pieces on gender critical matters and transgender issues, especially by Stella O'Malley.

In the Irish version of the Sunday Times, Brenda Power has written well (and ordinarily I don't agree with her at all!)

There’s a huge reddit thread about this today. To my surprise, most people agree with Sonia.

Well done to Sonia O Sullivan.
Sick of hearing Tom Daley spout absolute rubbish.
Proper sportspeople need to speak up, like SO’S

Was thrilled to see this article when I woke up this morning- - there were approx 53 comments by 9.00am ( I was watching to see if they'd leave comments up).

Around the middle of the day, the comments disappeared; and came back around 6pm I think.
Most comments agree with Sonia.

Fantastic. I heard her on the radio this evening. She was very clear. Comments from callers were read out too, and while there were the usual complaints, the presenter said the majority were supportive of Sonja.

Good for her for speaking out. I hope the backlash against her isn't too damaging / distressing for her.

Excellent to see. Sonia realises that it only takes one person, equipped with a penis and testicles - or who even was once equipped with a penis and testicles - to oppress all the women - who were born female - around her. That's what feminism is all about: making it clear that women can never be equal to men, because if you have a penis and testicles, you have a god-given advantage that cannot be erased. Well done to Sonia! :)

@Sophoclesthefox

Well done, Sonia. Each time a woman braves the onslaught, she makes it a bit easier for the next woman to do the same.

Womens sports are for females, female bodied people, possessors of two X chromosomes only, and there is no shame at all in saying so. The literal reason we have womens sports is that we don’t stand a chance of winning (or staying safe in some sports) when we compete against male bodies.

Let’s get men standing up to welcome transwomen into their sports, and ensure that any transphobia is immediately clamped down on with the same force used to shut women up when we complain about male bodies in womens sports, eh?

Yes to all these points. And huge thanks to Sonia for speaking up.

Saw this, this morning made me chuckle. In an tragic/ironic way obvs