Feeling Very Disturbed

[FeelingVeryDisturbed]

Name changed as outing.
I've just posted on my medical profession's closed FB group in support of an OP questioning the appropriateness of our professional body being a member of SW diversity scheme.
Cue pile-on by many talking all the usual talk - TWAW etc.
Thread deleted by admin as they agreed with reporters.
I'm really rattled - these are scientists denying scientific reality.
Just having a vent, really.

Was the post on VV? Anyone on Vetsurgeon as there's another post about Stonewall on there? I've just done a long reply to that (with references!) and expecting to get flack.
Also a vet

@DomesticatedZombie

All of the HCPs I know in real life are - well, either gc or just Not Buying It for a minute.

Same here. I know a few.

A pharmacist I know though who works in a hospital said some younger hcps (didnt specify who) very rather captured.

I’m also a vet. Clearly there are quite a few of us!

You would think vets, who I assume know how to sex animals at or shortly after birth, would know sex is binary. Imagine sticking an appendage on a female dog and assuming it would be fine with it's brothers...call it Dave as well (pronouns he/him).

@LaChanticleer

Crikey, they are medicos? God help an actual transwomen or transmen who seek treatment for the side effects of all the messing about with their bodies. "oh no, that can't be happening - you're an actual woman [or man], donchaknow?"

Trans women being women ≠ trans women being the same as cis women.

Not everyone subscribes to your bioessentialist definition of "woman".

Not everyone subscribes to your bioessentialist definition of "woman".

My definition of 'woman' is 'adult female human'. What's your definition of 'woman'?

so.....what would be a not bioessentialist definition of 'woman'
I'm all ears

Not everyone subscribes to your bioessentialist definition of "woman".

Those will be men then.

@Lekisa658 they cannot be the same or transition and detransition could not take place.

It is not possible to say you are what you are not, at the same time as actually being something else in material reality. When I wear my cat outfit I'm not biologically the same as my cat.

Trans women being women ≠ trans women being the same as cis women.

Quite so. Because transwomen are males, whereas the people you call 'cis' women are females. The first half of your statement is a lovely example of an oxymoron.

I disagree with your not-equals. Both statements are equally untrue.

OP I get you. I belong to a social group that includes a very senior medic and a STEM academic from a well regarded university.

For some reason the discussion veered towards transgenderism. I expected some to be quick with the TWAW, but was surprised to hear these two agree that we are learning more about chromosomes all the times and that things are not as binary as previously thought.

Eye opening.

@Lekisa658 do tell us your definition of 'woman'.

Waves @Branwenosaurus @TheCurrywurstPrion
Yes VV. I’ve been told about the other forum.
Solidarity with all those sticking their head above the parapet.
The piety comment rings true.

Aargh! Sympathy and solidarity @FeelingVeryDisturbed
I've just this afternoon had a similar experience.
Seconds after I confirmed I'd deliver a session for IWD at a single sex space I've been keeping at arms' length, I received the invite advertising me and assuring attendees, "Please note this event is for women, trans women and non-binary people only."
So not women then

[quote Leafstamp]@Lekisa658 do tell us your definition of 'woman'.[/quote]
Yes please. We've been waiting for one for ever so long. Posters keep coming on here and telling us our bioessentialist (what?) definitions are all wrong, but never explain what is wrong about them or, more importantly, give us the correct definition so we can correct our thinking. Perhaps Lekisa will be the one to set us straight (metaphorically speaking..). A nonbioessentialist defintion of woman would be marvellous..

I’ve not come across VV. Sad to hear that the admins were so fearful that they deleted. I don’t think the Vetsurgeon thread will be deleted. It will be interesting to see how it goes.

Trans women being women ≠ trans women being the same as cis women

Please don't use the term "cis" - women are not a subset of their sex.

And you know, biology is pretty essentialist, especially for mammals. That doesn't mean our culture & society have to be essentialist, as we can see that just because men can't reproduce, doesn't mean they're not creative; and just because women can reproduce, doesn't mean they're not intelligent.

But we have to acknowledge that men and women's bodies are different.

When the ideology evolves to you can be whatever you want, vets can expect parents to bring DC who identify as fish to work out why fish flakes aren't enough...because when you deny material reality you live in an imaginary bubble.

I feel your pain. I work in a scientific background. So many highly respected scientists who are full on TWAW with pronouns in their bio. One of our senior leaders has worked at some of the most prestigious universities in the world and is at the cutting edge of his scientific field. He has fucking he/they pronouns. It’s so hard to comprehend why highly educated intelligent people are embracing this unscientific pseudo religious batshittery.

To those who have contributed to the VS thread - thank you! You have been so eloquent, and explained the concerns so well.

Sorry about your experience OP, I can understand why you find it distressing. I've been in similar situations and think they silence us quickly because they don't want us to see how just many people disagree with TWAW.

Must say though, I'm finding it amusing that a plopper thinks its wrong for VETS of all people to have a "bioessentialist" view of sex.

You can show your colleagues this op

It hasn’t escaped my notice that it’s often the same people who berate anti vaxxers for being unscientific cranks who believe that humans can change sex and that women have penises and men can give birth. The cognitive dissonance is astonishing.

Yep, vet nurse here, I can confirm that the gender fairy has waved her/his/their magic wand over the veterinary industry too.
Doesn't seem to have stopped us knowing which animals to remove testicles from and which ones need their uterus removed.

Bizarre that.
It's almost as if biology exists!

Also, I won't be injecting a 30kg dose of sedative into a kitten who identifies as a Rottweiler.

Also - if you're feeling disturbed, it's always heartening to visit the Project Nettie site to see that scientists have not all swallowed the KoolAid:

projectnettie.wordpress.com/