The Times 11/2/22 Women-only carriages ‘would make ScotRail trains safer’

[Gastonia]

I don't have a share token. The article starts: "Ministers have been urged to consider creating female-only ScotRail train carriages after vowing to make the network safer for women."

Of course, the comments note the irony about this... I just had to cut and paste one exchange between two readers below, as it made me smile.

Mark Patrick: Well that's fine, because I will simply go into these carriages and if anybody questions me I shall say that I self identify as a woman (but only on trains). And what can they do? I will hoist them by their own ridiculous petard.
Stuart Whitby: So you're a trains-woman then?

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/women-only-carriages-would-make-scotrail-trains-safer-jw287tx55

So men might be predatory on trains but not in prisons, hospital wards, changing rooms, DV shelters. Right-o.

The comments are so funny with the majority making points similar to Crouton19
Share token:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3c6f5e52-8ac6-11ec-8600-c48a9935f856?shareToken=4439b3c8536c1aaa32b3af8066c36599

That little thread under the comment that Gastonia 's quoted made me roar with laughter.
Sometimes the discussions below are much better than the article.

I can already see the elephant sized problem here, and specifically in Scotland. However these facilities work well in other countries around the world and are used all the time. Bring them on, but ensure there are sex based rules. For all those who don’t mind, the other carriages are still available.

A trains-woman oh my god 🤣

I remember when Corbyn suggested this and everyone leapt in to say it was a shit idea.

I can't see this as a good thing. Better would be a carriage for men only and more guards/CCTV on the other carriages with a view to actually prosecuting men who assault women.

Otherwise the main space will be predominantly male and any woman who reports an assault will immediately be asked why she wasn't in the women-only section.

What happened to equality?
You have women carriages, you also need men only carriages.
On a short train 3 car set, does that mean the middle carriage is families and couples and the non-binary.
Is it like the swimming arguments on MN up until age 8, kids are allowed in the same sex carriage as their parent?
Oh tough shit if the middle carriage is full your 9yo boy should be in the men's carriage not in the ladies.

And you have sexed carriages is it bio sex or gendered!

Oh and then consider any predator knows which carriage lone women will appear from.

Seriously they need to think before they let their bellies rumble.

This is ridiculous. Sort out the problem - male behaviour - don’t sequester women! Yet again, the onus is on women!

Actually, maybe women should just stay at home, that way they’ll be safe. Oh, hang on…

This is a rubbish idea. We should not be forcing women into a few segregated spaces in public. We should be policing public spaces so that abusive men committing crimes in public spaces are caught and removed/arrested.

It's not comparable to changing rooms or toilets, where women are in a state of undress and so explicitly vulnerable to sexual crime, and so male/female separation makes sense. Or prisons where women cannot get away from abusive men.

The problem with the idea of 'female carriages' is it posits the male again as normal, the default human, with no 'male' carriages being proposed. It would further the idea of public spaces being seen as basically only for men, except in a very few specified 'female carriages'. Unless half the train were 'female carriages' ie male and female separation throughout the train, it would still leave most women sitting in what were now effective 'male' spaces and leave them more open to attack, as they would be seen as having chosen not to sit in the 'female carriage' so fair game. And of course separation of male and female throughout the train would make it impossible for couples, families or friends to sit together if of the opposite sex, which would clearly be ridiculous.

What next? Women being allocated a smal segregated corner of a park because there are flashers in parks? No. Catch the bloody flashers. Problem solved.

So apartheid basically? How fecking progressive 🤬

Thank you for the share token link - is there something about how share tokens work that hides the comments section from non-subscribers? I can't find a link to the comments which sound fun to read.

I agree with PP that sequestering women away in a ladies section is regressive. It defines public space as primarily for males. Instead there should be a carriage, on trains with 4 or more coaches, that are less comfortable (wooden/plastic benches rather than upholstered chairs) and anyone who is drunk or rowdy of either sex is obliged to use that coach, leaving the general public areas for people of either sex who are able to behave in a civilised and mutually respectful manner.

Obviously this won't happen as it puts the onus and consequences onto men, where it belongs, so obviously that can't be allowed.

Actually you’d need more than half the train for women only - because guess where all the children will be…

There is also this in the Times Scotland today, about guardians being assigned to female folk musicians to protect them from predatory males:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c7366c3c-8b58-11ec-a837-0153f5f4adaf?shareToken=dbf4d888b2493015578505e16ebf7ee2

I assume all the accessible carriages would have to be mixed by default?

Possibly, just putting this out there, rather than resolving the inevitable issues, it would be cheaper to employ train guards and give them powers to ensure the comfort and safety of their passengers?

And yes, the irony of it being in Scotland of all places that this is being considered is heavy.

So Scottish ministers don't think that women in states of undress should be allowed separate spaces to keep then safe from men? But fully-clad women in public spaces ARE apparently at risk??

How do they square that circle then? Women wearing clothes in public places might be in danger but magically as soon as they remove clothing or go to the toilet, any sex pests lose interest??!

Logic not the strong point of whoever came up with this scheme then.

Whats with all the cloak and dagger stuff. Say the name 'man from well known band' very good you've just put suspicion onto every male musician.

There has to be a better way to deal with this like not booking the men who are causing the issue. Or tell them outright to back off.

It's so crazy they can see predatory males exist and yet in the areas where segregation really does matter just dawn a frock and your in there.

Once you have self ID every single place and space is mixed sex. All of them. There can be no "women only" anything.

Scottish Government - dumbest of the dumb.

The dumbest of the dumb and the most dangerous of the dangerous 😤 Just how much do they hate women?

It's almost like they want to be YES men without thinking anything all the way through.

Women only spaces - yeah!
Men can be women - yeah!
Covid needs ventilation cut the doors!
What about Fire - it doesn't matter!

The women are up there with the doors! I never thought I'd be liking myself to a door.

I honestly think the Scottish Government are trolling us.

“To be forced to share a carriage when they feel threatened or frightened is unfair on women,”
Unless it's while showering or changing then it's totally fine
Or more probably what that means is “To be forced to share a carriage when they feel threatened or frightened is unfair on anyone who has their gas bill in a typically female name,”

Thick as pigshit & twice as dangerous