Queer Eye Season 6, Episode 2: Trans power lifter 'Angel'

[MrsGhastlyCrumb]

Has anyone else seen this? I know it's trash TV, please don't judge me..! Usually it's reasonably 'feelgood' viewing. This episode gave me the absolute rage within the first 5 minutes. Angel is introduced as a power lifter- driven, competitive, loveable etc. She opened her mouth and it was immediately clear she was male. Eventually this was mentioned, after they had given it lots of fluff about how she had recently started to compete in power lifting. Plenty of placement of items saying 'Let Trans Kids Compete'.

As my OH said, if Angel can compete against biological women, then are we now ok with women athletes dosing with Testosterone?

Oh, and also, I thought that the American Powerlifting Association had taken a stand on this issue and stated that their competitions would be sex based, so now I'm going to have to go Googling.

Grrrr.

Wouldn't bother me, or my daughter.

And I am sure, if your daughter was top in her category which was the same as Angel’s, and Angel entered the competition and won, your advice would be that she was beaten fairly and to if she complained you would say she is hateful.

Even though there is not just common sense and centuries of experience to back it up, there is indeed scientific proof that males have unfair advantage against females.

So much so, that even Joanne Harper, a transwoman sports researcher, could not defend Hubbard’s inclusion in the Olympics.

But crack on teaching your daughter to never expect fairness in any competition. That she should have to work harder than Angel ever has just to tie. And that that is just as it should be to be ‘kind’.

I had to turn off after he inferred that shaving his legs and putting on some hot pants made him feel like a woman 🙄

'I had to turn off after he inferred that shaving his legs and putting on some hot pants made him feel like a woman 🙄'

What an idiot. Men like him really show their true colours when they come out with nonsense like this - we're just a costume to them. And they can't / won't get why we find that so offensive

@Lottapianos

'I had to turn off after he inferred that shaving his legs and putting on some hot pants made him feel like a woman 🙄'

What an idiot. Men like him really show their true colours when they come out with nonsense like this - we're just a costume to them. And they can't / won't get why we find that so offensive

This is so true Lotta and waterbaby. JVN used to come across as a genuine, compassionate person but his casual dismissal of JKR (he took the side of the three idiots who posed outside her house over her) has shown it's only the performative side of womanhood he's interested in.

Tan deliberately chose breastfeeding awareness week to front a big formula campaign and crow 'fed is best' a week after becoming a surrogate dad, so he can feck off as well. The pair of them have no fecking idea.

I did used to enjoy the show and there have been some incredibly touching episodes but I would struggle to take their word for anything anymore.

Watched the first few mins until DH asked me to turn it off as it was giving him the rage. We agreed that no one says ‘I’m insecure about my body’ yet exclusively wears crop tops and hot pants.

If Angel did compete in the trans category and this wasn't mentioned in the episode, this is really quite misleading. They are clearly taking a stance on trans "inclusion" in sports, ie males can compete in women's sports if they utter the magic words "I am a woman". I used to like queer eye but I'm finally done, I can't abide by the nonbinary flouncing around of JVN now and the surrogacy crap from Tan.

Having looked at the results, it looks like Angel has competed twice in 2021, both times as the only competitor in the Mx category at the meet.

If they were the only competitor in their category, who did they beat? I also watched this episode thinking Angel had been in the women’s category and had used male strength to win against women. And absolutely yes to what women is ever insecure about her body yet wears crop tops and cycling shorts all the time?!

Some more on Tan France.

Tan France dismissing Breast Milk www.mumsnet.com/Talk/feminism/4314836-Tan-France-dismissing-Breast-Milk

This has really wound me up. So a rich man who’s paid a woman to carry a baby for him is trying to tell women that it’s time to evolve the conversation? Ignorance, male privilege and misogyny wrapped up in one sentence right there.

@SirChenjins

This has really wound me up. So a rich man who’s paid a woman to carry a baby for him is trying to tell women that it’s time to evolve the conversation? Ignorance, male privilege and misogyny wrapped up in one sentence right there.

Basically, yes. I'm wary of a man who says Breast milk is bad and say he had a 'surrogate', remove the word 'mother'. It doesn't surprise me at all that Angel is a woman to France but probably wouldn't be approached to have a baby for him.

And "evolve the conversation" sounds like a queer theory subtitle doesn't it?

I'm not a fan of the show but can appreciate its now something you can't unsee OP.

I found the episode quite moving. I cannot watch the show without feeling the love.

Of course I think it is unfair if Angel competes against women but I don't expect a 21/22 year old who has spent a lot of time confused about their identity to get that.

I think it's sad that Angel grew up in a very competitive environment with expectations linked to her relationship with her father (despite clearly it being a loving relationship) in a culture of strong gender norms. Its concerning to describe being a teenager not feeling right for years and then reaching this conclusion as such a young adult. Many many young people spend their adolescence not feeling quite right.

I am less hung up on the comments about shaving legs. Of course shaving legs doesn't make me a women. But I understand when a trans person person focuses on the tangible easily identified stereotyped idea of womanhood. It's easier to express an external idea than express/connect to the underlying feelings.

I was disappointed that Tan dressed Angel in very sexualised clothes. I felt like Angel had presented what we don't often see of transwomen. The confused feelings rather than a fetishised sexualised presentation. I couldn't tell how much of that was Tan and how much Angel.

Jonathan Van Ness and his use of non binary did irritate me initially. However, much as I think it's an unnecessary label he didn't need, "non binary" is making it more acceptable to defy stereotypes, even though most of us grown ups can see how the concept is rooted in those stereotypes. So I'm on the fence. The young people with their need for a label are making it more acceptable to not conform. I cannot criticise Jonathan Van Ness for choosing to identify as non binary because it is not easy to defy stereotypes in our society and I think to say "so what, he's a man who likes dresses" as if that is accepted/unremarkable, is perhaps disingenuous. (Although I have known a couple of non binary youngish adults and keep waiting to hear something more than fashion in terms of what it means!!)

I've probably made very obvious points here.

Surely the only reason(s) to watch Queer Eye are Bobby and sweet, simple Antoni?!

A side note, something JVN said in another episode struck me - I think it was the one with the young black man who had become estranged from his mother-figure. He referred to the others as the gay godfathers but didn’t refer to himself as gay and it occurred to me that I didn’t know how a non-binary person refers to their sexuality?

Bobby is fab. He sometimes presents on the glassblowing show and iirc the blacksmith/metalwork one.

Also stopped watching. The trailer auto-played on Netflix, showing JVN patronisingly (and without complexity) explaining to an "uneducated simpleton" hairy bloke why pronouns are important. That was the end of it. Tan France too, I shall never French tuck again.

@whachatalkinaboutwillis

Tan has become quite unpleasant over the last 2 series. I loved the show initially and will watch the new series but having seen his repeated shaming of the lovely older woman in the first episode - calling her clothes 'hoochie' and shaming her for dressing in a very practical way that suited her fantastic figure, whilst Jonathon wore a series of very unflattering outfits inappropriate for the work he was doing and yet is celebrated because he is non binary. It's just irritating.

Yes, it's so funny that Jonathon dresses worse than anyone I've ever seen, yet Tan has never tried to influence him.

I'd feel much more kindly to Tan and his husband if they adopted a child, rather than paying for a surrogate. I'm really really uncomfortable about the whole surrogacy thing.

@GingerAndTheBiscuits

Surely the only reason(s) to watch Queer Eye are Bobby and sweet, simple Antoni?!

A side note, something JVN said in another episode struck me - I think it was the one with the young black man who had become estranged from his mother-figure. He referred to the others as the gay godfathers but didn’t refer to himself as gay and it occurred to me that I didn’t know how a non-binary person refers to their sexuality?

This is true about Bobby and Antoni! I used to enjoy the show so much.

Interesting point about JVN - there was a piece about him in the Graun today that was full on 'they is'. It was so poorly written it was more jarring even than usual.

It mentioned JVN is married to a "British husband" so if he doesn't consider himself gay I guess we can expect more mangling of the language to come.

Something of the emperor's new clothes about all this. The fact we're supposed to deny what we can plainly see about JVN is not harmless - he's made a career off 'be kind' and getting curious, but doesn't extend it to women.

thegentity
“don't know how she could give you 'the rage' when she's just existing and living her life in the truest way it feels to her“

Her life identifying as a woman weight lifter means she is displacing women weightlifters who could not possibly compete with her male body.

So she is not just ‘living her life’ she is wrecking someone else’s.