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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Transgender prisoners to get cells in women's prisons

27 replies

Imnobody4 · 19/10/2021 11:00

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/150million-give-transgender-prisoners-new-25230999

The Government is spending £150million at women’s jails on 500 new cells which can be used for transgender lags.

They will be single occupancy with ensuite loos and showers. But some will enable women to have their kids overnight to prepare for life at home.

Tory Baroness Scott of Bybrook confirmed the cells plan to support “transgender needs” as required by law and jail policy.

I suppose this is a slight improvement but still leaves women open to abuse in the general prison area.
Unforeseen outcome - more men id as women to get brand new cell in cushy environment.
This money was supposed to be to improve women's prisons for women.

OP posts:
OP posts:
LaetitiaASD · 19/10/2021 11:05

Why not have wings for male trans people in men's prisons and for female trans people in men's prisons as testosterone and women's prisons are an ideal match?

timeisnotaline · 19/10/2021 11:05

I saw this on Twitter but would need something more clear. If some cells are for women to see children that’s good- it’s possible they are being built for a variety of reasons and one is for some transwomen. I just think we need to be clear - it seems unlikely they are saying all transwomen will get their own cell.

nauticant · 19/10/2021 11:06

Interesting framing by the Mirror, building the story around Karen White with clear photos. Also, including this: "female prisoners who call transgender inmates “he” or “him” face extra time in jail under equality rules or could be punished for “threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour”."

OvaHere · 19/10/2021 11:10

They could do this in the male estate.

allmywhat · 19/10/2021 11:10

Why not just have transwomen share with each other in a separate wing? I don’t understand the need for special treatment and individual cells? Is that discriminatory or something? If it is discriminatory, why aren’t the nicer individual cells also discriminatory?

I suppose at least when they finally acknowledge the need for a separate trans prison (because male prisoners are rushing to avail themselves of all the special treatment) there will be some decent accommodation for mothers and babies. Maybe.

Chersfrozenface · 19/10/2021 11:12

This is interesting in that the Mirror is very widely regarded as left wing and Labour supporting.

terryleather · 19/10/2021 11:13

@OvaHere

They could do this in the male estate.
Yes, this is where they would be if we weren't living in clown world...
Thelnebriati · 19/10/2021 11:17

If some of the cells will be used by mothers and children, are they suggesting putting women, their children, and trans prisoners in the same block?

Given that some NHS trusts don't see an issue with putting convicted sex offenders on women's wards if they identify as trans (and will remove supervision as it upsets the trans person), I think this needs clarification.

yourhairiswinterfire · 19/10/2021 11:22

Interesting framing by the Mirror, building the story around Karen White with clear photos.

Yes, they mentioned that White was a danger to women and children just after noting that these new cells could also be used for women to have their children stay with them overnight...

In July, a High Court Judge ruled holding transgender women in female jails is lawful because a ban would ignore their right to live as their ­chosen gender.

So where are all the transmen being held in the male estate? Are there any?

Spend money extending the male estate and call it the ''women's unit'' or whatever. Job done. Then female prisoners won't be living in fear and facing punishment for not playing along with lies Hmm

ErrolTheDragon · 19/10/2021 11:23

@OvaHere

They could do this in the male estate.
Yes - do they not already have to provide for certain 'vulnerable' prisoners?
GrandmaMazur · 19/10/2021 11:24

Why not open a separate trans prison and have these new cells in women’s prisons for women with children?

Who decided how this money should be spent? Was this the money that was supposed to be for female prisoners?

(Sorry for all the questions!)

ArabellaScott · 19/10/2021 11:34

I was surprised to find out recently that women prisoners in Scotland had been moved to what was a Young Offenders' Institute for males. Polmont houses at least one rapist/murderer.

www.sps.gov.uk/Corporate/Prisons/Polmont/HMP-YOI-Polmont.aspx

www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/1008475/female-prisoners-polmont-salads-protest-big-macs-mcdonalds/

'The report also recommended that women be handed liquid washing tablets so they could wash their underwear in their en-suite cells rather than send their smalls to the prison laundry.

It stated that some women - housed in the newly renovated Blair House unit of the prison, in which all cells are en-suite - were "uncomfortable" sending their underwear to the prison laundry

The report states: "Women reported to us that washing powder was not available for them to wash their underwear in their cells and they felt uncomfortable sending all their clothing together to the main laundry facility.'

toocold54 · 19/10/2021 11:48

It stated that some women - housed in the newly renovated Blair House unit of the prison, in which all cells are en-suite - were "uncomfortable" sending their underwear to the prison laundry

How ridiculous.
Prison shouldn’t be torture but it shouldn’t be a holiday either.
If they like sending their underwear with everything else then maybe they shouldn’t go to prison.

ArabellaScott · 19/10/2021 11:50

Because women are obliged to provide their underwear to males if they're incarcerated? That's contravening their basic dignity. I don't think asking to wash your own smalls in your cell to avoid it being handled my males is really diva behaviour.

ArabellaScott · 19/10/2021 11:51

Do many people spend a lot of time washing underwear on holiday as some kind of luxurious treat?

Original poster
Imnobody4 · 19/10/2021 11:54

From Hansard
Baroness Jones of MoulsecoombGreen

To ask Her Majesty's Government what estimate they have made, if any, of how many additional spaces will need to be provided in Mother and Baby Units as part of the work to build 500 new places for (1) women, and (2) trans men, in prison.

TweetShareHansard source(Citation: HL Deb, 20 September 2021, cW)

Baroness Scott of BybrookBaroness in Waiting (HM Household) (Whip)

The programme to deliver up to 500 additional prison places in the women’s estate does not include delivering additional places in Mother and Baby Units. The current provision provided for Mother and Baby Units is forecast to continue to be sufficient with the increase in prison places.

Our new accommodation design supports transgender needs as required by legislation and prison policy. This includes ensuring that there are adequate areas that support the disclosing of information and private conversations. Single-cell occupancy will also support privacy and dignity, with in-cell sanitation facilities included in designs.
...................
So these are additional places. Are they expecting a female crime wave? I thought the consensus was that many women in prison didn't need to be there.

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 19/10/2021 11:55

I recall reading there are more spaces in UK jails for transwomen than there are for mother and baby places.

timeisnotaline · 19/10/2021 11:56

My guess would be the men/boys who have access to the laundry wank into them or something like that, I wouldn’t like that much either.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/10/2021 11:58

Why can't they be given washing powder?

Ohsugarhoneyicetea · 19/10/2021 12:20

Presumably this is just for males accessing the female estate. Interesting how its never the other way around.

Rhannion · 19/10/2021 12:24

We don’t know how many m to f or f to m prisoners there are as no one is keeping proper data.

JurassickJay · 19/10/2021 12:32

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Fariha31 · 19/10/2021 12:50

So the 500 new spaces in womens prisons are for men who feel like women presumerbly.
No info on what happens to trans men, presumerbly they just go in with the women.
Hopefully none of these new units also contain mother and baby cells.
No information on if these new 'women' prisoners will be mixing with women and children, presumerbly they will be?

Men in prison will be crazy not to self id as a woman, what will they do when the numbers go in to the tens of thousands? That is going to take some explaining.

Fariha31 · 19/10/2021 12:52

Diden't Joe Biden want mixed sex prisons?

So its like they are going to use women prisoners (women who have been sent down for minor offences) to be sex slaves to the male prisoners? is this to keep order in prisons or something?

It nuts and vomit inducing in equal measures.