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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Politics Live Emily Thornberry

54 replies

zen1 · 27/09/2021 13:03

Has just said that it’s “factually incorrect that only women have cervixes because some men have cervixes.”
I’ve held out cancelling my Labour membership but I can’t justify it any longer.
So pissed off with the misinformation.

OP posts:
Jaysmith71 · 27/09/2021 13:16

The only men in possession of cervixes are anatomists and Mambo No. serial killers:

A little bit of Monica in the fridge. A little bit of Jessica under the bridge....

zen1 · 27/09/2021 13:20

She didn’t even say trans men, just ‘men’.

OP posts:
PaleGreenGhost · 27/09/2021 13:20

It's really good they're now saying this openly. Ordinary people deserve to know what the people who seek to lead them believe.

I only cancelled a month or two ago. Having held on to my membership because of the manifesto including sex based rights and my mistaken belief Starmer wasn't stupid /spineless.

Actually can I get a refund on my membership since 2019?! Because saying that men can have cervixes explicitly goes against the manifesto by rendering the word "woman" a gender ID rather than a biological fact. I'm happy for Labour to support religious people and people who believe in gender ID as well, but there has to be room for atheism.

4BlueTowers · 27/09/2021 13:23

Saw it,. Then she smirked in a 'gotcha' way.

Amazing.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 27/09/2021 13:24

@Jaysmith71

The only men in possession of cervixes are anatomists and Mambo No. serial killers:

A little bit of Monica in the fridge. A little bit of Jessica under the bridge....

I really shouldn't Grin but it's that or Gin at this stage. How can they utter these things with a straight face? How can they not know how they're coming across to most of the audience, i.e. voters? Don't they want to win an election?
HollowTalk · 27/09/2021 13:25

Christ, if even Emily Thornberry can't see sense then what hope do we have?

SilverGlassHare · 27/09/2021 13:25

@Jaysmith71

The only men in possession of cervixes are anatomists and Mambo No. serial killers:

A little bit of Monica in the fridge. A little bit of Jessica under the bridge....

Today you win the internet.
OldTurtleNewShell · 27/09/2021 13:30

I'm kind of glad they're saying this out loud now. At least they're nailing their colours to the mast. No one can wonder anymore if Starmer or Thornberry or others are just trying to be politically savvy.
They've made it quite clear where they stand.

zen1 · 27/09/2021 13:32

I actually feel panicky when I hear this blatant denial of facts because I find myself questioning whether other people will start believing what they are saying (am on the autism spectrum and can’t bear obvious lies).

OP posts:
Abhannmor · 27/09/2021 13:33

The intellectual colossus that is Emily - I can shout very loudly - Thornberry

IsabelBeck · 27/09/2021 13:35

Help me out here, I'm a simple soul.

So when ET says some men have cervixes is she talking about (trans) men who were born female but now identify as male?

So they were women once - hence the cervix. Or does she mean some men (who don't transition) have a cervix and presumably, a penis?

EdgeOfACoin · 27/09/2021 13:36

And these people have the gall to call out climate-change deniers and anti-vaxxers as being 'anti science'.

Then they stand there with a straight face claiming that a man can have a cervix.

Unbelievable.

MistandMud · 27/09/2021 13:36

I suspect there are quite a lot of people tuning it all out because they neither know nor care what a cervix is.

A better question would be 'do only women have wombs?' or 'do only men have testicles'?

MistandMud · 27/09/2021 13:37

@IsabelBeck

Help me out here, I'm a simple soul.

So when ET says some men have cervixes is she talking about (trans) men who were born female but now identify as male?

So they were women once - hence the cervix. Or does she mean some men (who don't transition) have a cervix and presumably, a penis?

The first one. Female people, who identify themselves as men.

Blokes born male don't have a cervix, because it's the neck of the womb, and they really, really don't have one of those unless they've nicked it.

purpleboy · 27/09/2021 13:37

@IsabelBeck

Help me out here, I'm a simple soul.

So when ET says some men have cervixes is she talking about (trans) men who were born female but now identify as male?

So they were women once - hence the cervix. Or does she mean some men (who don't transition) have a cervix and presumably, a penis?

I presume she is talking about trans men
Fubitch · 27/09/2021 13:38

I've just watched this. I actually didn't know who she was, but how bloody smug was she?? Reminds me of the old tories. It's just ridiculous. The other woman spoke well and reminded everyone that it was Stonewall that demanded no debate on the subject.

EdgeOfACoin · 27/09/2021 13:39

@zen1

I actually feel panicky when I hear this blatant denial of facts because I find myself questioning whether other people will start believing what they are saying (am on the autism spectrum and can’t bear obvious lies).
That's why I want the question to be about whether a woman can have a penis, not whether a man can have a cervix.

There's a lot of ignorance about the cervix.

A two-year-old child knows what a penis is.

Thornberry feels confident saying a man can have a cervix. I want her to be on air saying unequivocally that a woman can have a lady penis.

IsabelBeck · 27/09/2021 13:40

Oh thanks. I didn't know if ET knew something I didn't!

She's such a card that one Hmm

Politics Live Emily Thornberry
SageHoney · 27/09/2021 13:42

Which men, Emily? Specifically? Can you name one?

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 27/09/2021 13:49

Well, this is the thing, Isabel, the language is so confusing (deliberately so, I would say) that we can't be sure what she means, and I do wonder if she could spell it out herself.

I have frequently seen someone confidently state on Twitter that there are intersex people who have both male and female anatomy. I'm not a medic or a biologist but people who are have confirmed that this is utter nonsense. People with DSDs are all either female or male. There can be some difficult cases within that group, but their numbers are tiny compared to the population whose sexual development was as expected.

Emily could be one of the numpties who thinks there genuinely are hermaphrodites and they're as numerous as redheads (redheads where, as More or Less on R4 pointed out a while back - redheads in Scotland are very numerous, redheads in Sudan are vanishingly rare, so which is it?).

Or she could be trying to say that transmen are men, in spite of being female and in most cases not having their female reproductive system removed (fortunately - I don't want anybody going through except if absolutely necessary medically).

Or she could be under the impression that sexual reassignment surgery on a male body actually results in that male person having a cervix. (Of course, this would mean she was also labouring under the misapprehension that most transwomen have SRS, and we know only a small minority do.)

The only sure thing this sorry episode shows is that she hasn't done any solid research, her grasp of science is poor and she has no common sense. For all these reasons, she and the rest of the Labour Cabinet are even less fit to govern the UK than Johnson and his merry crew, and that's saying something.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 27/09/2021 13:50

@IsabelBeck

Help me out here, I'm a simple soul.

So when ET says some men have cervixes is she talking about (trans) men who were born female but now identify as male?

So they were women once - hence the cervix. Or does she mean some men (who don't transition) have a cervix and presumably, a penis?

I can not speak for ET but my guess would be that she is: – highlighting trans men who have retained the sexed sex organs (so to speak); – misgendering non-binary people who might: – have retained the sexed sex organs and have a gendered presentation; – reject a gendered presentation; – reject a gendered presentation; – have had some surgery to remove some secondary sexual characteristics and some of the primary sex organs but not all of thee structures.

All the points under 'misgendering' should be read as sub bullet-points.

Apologies for the lack of clarity: i) FWR rules; ii) I doubt ET fully understands.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 27/09/2021 13:51

They’re like lemmings aren’t they! Even apart from the lying & gaslighting, I can’t believe they’re so bad at actual politics given that it’s their job

This is playing very badly with the public & the more it’s asked by journalists (who will of course all now ask), the more badly it plays. Who the hell is advising them??

(Stonewall we know it’s stonewall)

BraveBananaBadge · 27/09/2021 13:55

Oh, no. They're taking the piss now. This is madness.

AtLeastPretendToCare · 27/09/2021 13:57

God the smirking. Infuriating.

I’ve been back and watched it and I have to say I though Helen Lewis did well in making alternative arguments. And I think interesting that she was saying things you rarely hear on TV about conflation of sex and gender, that sometimes sex matters and that Stonewall has driven no debate. Plus calling people transphobic because they aren’t using current activist approved terms is not a vote winner.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 27/09/2021 13:59

I presume she is talking about trans men How very transphobic of you! Transmen are men!