Have we stepped through the looking glass?

[MordenLarch]

For some reason, despite all the other rubbish that gets thrown at us daily, I can’t quite believe the leader of the opposition has today said that it’s wrong to say only women have cervixes.

It feels like we’ve completely broken free of reality. How can he actually say those words? There’s no way he believes them.

I’m a lifelong Labour/Green voter. Now I hope they’re finished forever.

@yourhairiswinterfire

I remember people saying the same thing about two men getting married

Gay men didn't demand that everyone deny reality, they asked that people acknowledged reality, that men can fall in love with men. Gay men didn't dehumanise, abuse and shit all over women to win the right to marry their partners.

What's happening right now is the complete opposite. Demanding we all play along with reality deniers, the leader of the labour party telling women we mustn't speak the truth, mangling the language we use for ourselves, locking women up with convicted rapists because of an ideology.

Nothing like the fight for same sex marriage at all, and saying it is is a pathetic attempt at shaming women into shutting up. Not going to work.

Thank you. Said it much better than I ever could!

This poster who is trying to make out we are against gay marriage is probably too young to realise that most of us rad fems (or CG types generally) were allies to LGB people if not LGB ourselves and in particular fought against section 28.
Some of us even questioned why, once civil partnerships were a thing, you would want the trappings of a patriarchal heteronormative institution like marriage, but I wouldn't want to make their brain explode.

@Velvetoverground

Yeah, same sex marriage vs the complete denial of biological reality and erosion of women’s rights. That’s the same!

It's true though, except even more people were outraged, this time it's just a few.

As an LGBT+ person would you mind weaponising someone else's oppression for your point scoring please?

I'll add that it's particularly distasteful as it is busy leveraging that same sex marriage was a Good Thing in the End, while ignoring the strong homophobia issues within the politics that are being presented as so wonderfully positive.

This poster who is trying to make out we are against gay marriage is probably too young to realise that most of us rad fems (or CG types generally) were allies to LGB people if not LGB ourselves and in particular fought against section 28.

Not to mention the people like Simon Callow and Simon Fanshawe speaking up. Kinda hard to dismiss them as 'the same as the homophobes that opposed gay marriage' (although there have been some attempts, bless. I believe one poster here on this board, a transactivist, said Simon Fanshawe, one of the founders of Stonewall, needed to 'educate himself' on gay history 😂)

Yay, snide attempts to shame women into dropping their boundaries. Why is there never a coherent argument? Perhaps some people are just uncomfortable with women talking and seek to provide a chaperone.

My cervix needs screening for the very disease that killed my mum. In a world where women are any sex, how do I ask for a female-sexed-as-in-cervix-owner-or-ex-cervix-owner HCP to do my smear test? Yes I need one. Yes it's irrelevant that some women are privileged enough not to mind. No I wouldn't turn down emergency medicine from a male HCP and if you can't see the difference between the 2 scenarios I suggest you need to think beyond your own very narrow frame of reference, learn about trauma and speak to more women.

BTW if we were all actually right wing, how would insinuating that we were be an insult?! Or is this that negative attention seeking thing my toddler does?

gender ideology was invented by the Russians in order to destabilise the west and they're winning
Are other countries in Europe getting into a tangle on this sort of thing?
I know the USA is adding to their established weirdos.

I remember people saying the same thing about two men getting married

Jane Clare Jones goes into considerable detail as to why that is an inappropriate comparison.

Gay rights and trans rights: a compare and contrast:

janeclarejones.com/2018/09/09/gay-rights-and-trans-rights-a-compare-and-contrast/

twitter.com/janeclarejones/status/1401655134929756164

Interestingly Andrew Doyle and Andrew Sullivan have done a podcast this evening for his Free Speech Nation show delving into gay rights history amongst other things.

AS talks quite a bit about how much pushback there was to his pro marriage position from the gay community in the 90s. It made him quite unpopular because it was viewed by many as heteronormative and a patriarchal institution.

He also talks extensively about how hearts and minds were won by debate and reason. MN fave Peter Tatchell gets a name check as one of his big opponents.

Well worth watching if you enjoy longer form conversations.

It’s the main reason why I can’t vote for them. I like Kier, but I just can’t get past this