Would anyone care to reply to Laurie Penny?

[SpannerInTheWorks]

She's posted on Twitter

"I’m fascinated to know what sort of world ‘gender critical’ feminists would like to live in, ideally. What would gender identity look like? What would be acceptable ways for, say, someone assigned male at birth who did not want to be a man?"

twitter.com/PennyRed/status/1423445676810141702

I have a long and articulate response in my head but I'm not out as GC on Twitter and am not ready to be.

Perhaps some of the MN feminists could help her with her fascination?

I'm still laughing about her punting her last book about "anti-capitalism" on Amazon.

She's not fascinated though, is she? I hate that. Stop using bullshit words you don't mean. She is just trying to stir things up in a bid to get attention for herself. Best thing we can do for people like that is ignore them until they get so desperate for attention they go and seek the therapy they need.

I'd like to see three things. Gender identity gone, so anyone can wear a dress, make up, fix a car etc. Robust safeguarding on the basis of sex. Well funded mental health services to help people like this. They may not want to be a man, but they are and no amount of surgery or hormones will change that.

Well done @Tuscancat and spot on. I am feeling grumpy today so good to see someone else keeping it positive and productive!

Thanks for posting the link op. There are some really brilliant replies on there. I'm going to try to remember some of them next time I talk about the issues in RL.

Some interesting replies on that thread!

It's sad to see the person doubling down though. Not getting it. Doing a fair bit of DARVO.

guinnessguzzler is correct - I don't believe Penny is in the least bit fascinated. She has picked her team and that's it. I doubt she'll even read the responses.

But I think she also has a book coming out so expect more of the same.

@GNCQ

Some interesting replies on that thread!

It's sad to see the person doubling down though. Not getting it. Doing a fair bit of DARVO.

From what I've seen of her, she's a bit of a dick on a number of issues, not just this one. But I'm hoping the replies might help some of her followers to understand GC more clearly.

I loved this simple reply:

In the gender critical world, being a man only means having the body type that denotes the production of small gametes.

It doesn't mean anything else.

What would "not want to be a man" mean, if "man" only means that you have the body type that denotes small gamete production?

So I won't add to Penny's self aggrandizing Twitter stunt but, for FWR followers: I would like to live in a world where men had sorted out their shit, because then none of this would matter any more.

A world where no one is discriminated against or faces prejudice due to their sex, sexuality or gender.

Where anyone can present and love socially however they want.

Where we are not afraid to either live as we feel, or state facts. Where to support freedom of gender expression we are not required to deny sex as a fact or a source of identity.

Where cancel couture is cancelled, where we are not afraid of opinions and experiences that are nuanced or different from our own. Where complexity and duality is seen as a richness and resource not a threat.

But I do not engage in this on Twitter: is is an anti-social medium.

@Floisme

So I won't add to Penny's self aggrandizing Twitter stunt but, for FWR followers: I would like to live in a world where men had sorted out their shit, because then none of this would matter any more.

Yep! This I like.

Honestly she recently posted something about being furious she'd only just discovered that her back/neck pain were due to her desk height and the default male. Apparently totally ignorant of the workplace assessments that are commonly done so they can tick a box but they probably won't buy you a new desk or special chair not to mention unaware of the work of Caroline Criado-Perez. I think she likes to make a lot of noise but she doesn't do the research and doesn't know what she's talking about half the time.

twitter.com/pennyred/status/1420248792754888705?s=21

I'm laughing at Baroness Nicholson's reply:

"I’m fascinated to know what sort of world ‘gender critical’ feminists would like to live in, ideally. What would gender identity look like? What would be acceptable ways for, say, someone assigned male at birth who did not want to be a man?"

Complain to their parents as always

🤷‍♀️🤣

I’m not saying that being a tiny white woman doesn’t come with other, unearned social privileges, but I’d trade a slice of them to be able to use furniture without hurting myself

Quite offensive, actually.

Some excellent replies on that thread. Pity they won't make the slightest bit of difference to Laurie, but maybe some will take notice.

It's so tiring isn't it? Especially as you know you can explain until you are blue in the face and they'll just keep on going, "gee those GC feminists really do support conservative gender stereotypes!"

I feel like we're in an asylum saying we're really not mad, and they're just replying to say that this proves we're mad, only a mad person would say that. We can't win.

Surely Gender Critical actually means, 'critical of the concept of gender '?
So in a GC world there would not be gender identities or gender roles, just people with a recognised biological sex and personalities?

Given Penny's initial response on Twitter to reports of a naked man getting into a hot tub with a child - not even 'It's a lie' but that the child shouldn't have been looking - I don't think there's any way back for her.

Eh?
Naked man?
Hot tub?
When?

There’s a thread about it on the other board. Called something about the Stanislavsky question if I remember

Eh apologies for the autocorrect. It should say Stanisland

Sorry I was confused about which board I was on. I'm afraid you'll have to visit the naughty corner for the hot tub info - it's on one of the Wi Spa threads.

I think LP is just looking for attention to their Twitter.

I don't for one minute believe they don't know what it means.

Also lol at oh no this is rubbish because most things are made with default male in mind.

Transparent.

'*ways for someone who did not want to be a man to live and identify?'

Hmm.

Work with other men to break down the rigid masculine norms that much of society seeks to impose? And the sometimes violent enforcement of those norms by other men?