Janice Turner on Men in Womens' Sport

[Igneococcus]

In the Times today:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1f46e2aa-f160-11eb-8f01-2c678acbb979?shareToken=5b3214aca472297d50f8c6b30df50130

The article is ruined by using female third person pronouns for Hubbard.

It isn't 'kind'. It is an unacceptable obfuscation of language and a capitulation to the bullies who enforce it on us because 'kind'.

Hubbard is a cheat and deserves no such respect.

Utterly pissed off with the tolerance of these cheating fuckers who make money from taking women's positions.

Brilliant, succenct, thorough. As always. And unspeakably depressing.

Reviewing Helen Joyce’s recent book Trans, my colleague David Aaronovitch remarked that her tone was too angry. But when I think about Stowers battling such odds, or Roviel Detenamo, only 18, a lifter from even poorer Nauru, denied her first Olympics because Hubbard took her qualifying slot, I’m filled with white-hot rage.

Yup.

@MiladyBerserko

The article is ruined by using female third person pronouns for Hubbard.

It isn't 'kind'. It is an unacceptable obfuscation of language and a capitulation to the bullies who enforce it on us because 'kind'.

Hubbard is a cheat and deserves no such respect.

Utterly pissed off with the tolerance of these cheating fuckers who make money from taking women's positions.

I agree, but aren't journalists bound by some code to use preferred pronouns?

@MiladyBerserko

The article is ruined by using female third person pronouns for Hubbard.

It isn't 'kind'. It is an unacceptable obfuscation of language and a capitulation to the bullies who enforce it on us because 'kind'.

Hubbard is a cheat and deserves no such respect.

Utterly pissed off with the tolerance of these cheating fuckers who make money from taking women's positions.

I think Janice has to follow the IPSO guidelines for journalists. It's gaslighting on an industrial scale. The same for 'female' pedophiles, rapists, etc.

Nic Williams campaigns tirelessly to point out how misleading it is.

It’s another great article.

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/58037439

I hope you don’t mind me adding the bbc link. The first leg of the relay demonstrates why girls sport is for girls

I know but it pisses me off.

And I fairly certain that Janice has said she would use 'preferred pronouns'.

As though it's a choice. It isn't a choice, it's enforced.

Yes, I'm in a fucker of a mood this morning. Sick of it all.

@MiladyBerserko

I know but it pisses me off.

And I fairly certain that Janice has said she would use 'preferred pronouns'.

As though it's a choice. It isn't a choice, it's enforced.

Yes, I'm in a fucker of a mood this morning. Sick of it all.

I completely agree. Sometimes I think it's done deliberately, to jar. But to me it always look like capitulation.

Not at all Universe1969

They should make a point of saying "X is referred to as 'she' throughout this piece to comply with IPSO rules". They're not a D notice, right?

Also, 'guidelines' can't be right, or they wouldn't feel compelled to obey them. Must be rules.

Tme for a legal challenge to IPSO, post-Forstater? Writers being discriminated against by being unable to use sex-based pronouns according to their lack of belief in gender identity?

What would happen if a team entered four males in their mixed team?
I think there would be huge kick back. Men would suddenly see the unfairness.

Yes a statement at the beginning would be better Scone. And a few articles on the subject too.

But I think Janice is on record saying that she will use (incorrect) pronouns. Like most people I was there at one point but I refuse to capitulate to enforced speech.

Barra Kerr rules.

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken Sadly I don’t think they’d care as they’d just see a medal being won.

The article is really good and my dad brought up how wrong men taking part in women’s sport is last time we saw him so it is reaching the mainstream.

AllThe

Yeah, we keep waiting for this kickback from men. And waiting.

It doesn't look like it's happening

Just watched the mixed 100m swimming medley ... clear to all the difference sex makes. What a race though! Fantastic!!!

Hard to read. Janice is excellent but the pronouns are irritating and made ot confusing in places. Why not just avoide them altogether? It's quite doable in written form, even if it takes longer.

Good article.

Thanks for this, some great comments on the article too.

A great article.
I presume Janice has decided to pick her battles with the pronoun usage? She's already had an IPSO complaint made by one of the trans zealots who shamefully weaponised child suicide if I recall correctly? IPSO dismissed the complaint but it must take up a lot of time & energy responding to all the hurty feelz complaints.

It’s great to see more articles like this in the mainstream press

At some point during the commentary yesterday, the BBC had a history piece about the rowing from yesteryear, and showing a male cox getting a medal, and said it was "the first time a male had received a medal in a women's event". Sounds like it won't be the last! (But I bet they won't say that)

I presume Janice has decided to pick her battles with the pronoun usage?

The editor controls what is printed/published. Julie Bindel used the appropriate pronouns in her piece about the woman in prison - it was printed/published online with other pronouns.

@EmbarrassingAdmissions

I presume Janice has decided to pick her battles with the pronoun usage?

The editor controls what is printed/published. Julie Bindel used the appropriate pronouns in her piece about the woman in prison - it was printed/published online with other pronouns.

In the Julie Bindel piece, (I think I'm right in saying that) the Mail also altered the pronouns in the quotes from the woman who'd been assaulted in prison which seemed just plain wrong. In that case, I don't see how they were bound by IPSO rules; she was entitled to speak about the trans prisoner in her own terms.