Wi Spa pt 2: talking to the manager

[FlyPassed]

I can't see this was posted already, apologies if it's a duplicate.

Original MN thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4281706-pushback-at-wi-spa-in-los-angeles

Part 2: talking to the manager.
Our hero holds the line, the manager can only say that they cannot discriminate on the basis of gender identity.

I hope this brings lots if sunlight

www.instagram.com/tv/CQfqaRDnS36/

Men are cowed or complicit and women are once again fighting the battle for their own safety alone. I think many more are complicit and that makes me very sad but I now believe Germaine Greer has a point "Women have very little idea of how much men hate them” NAMALT but right now, too many are

Gerbil that's so true about the men not getting involved.
Outing to anyone that knows me, but I got involved on an incident on a bus in Central London where a (mentally unwell and very big/tall) man was racially abusing a younger woman (anti-semitic abuse). I intervened and wouldn't delete a photo of him I had on my phone and he threatened me, I stood my ground until the police arrived. He was sectioned that night.
My two male colleagues with me on the bus pretended they weren't with me, even though we had boarded together. Cheers lads.

*Because despite the idea that men go around protecting women and girls at all costs, very possibly with violence.

In real life as I know and others probably do as well, they don't want to get involved, they see it as a thing for the women to deal with.*

Absolutely. The idea that "terf rhetoric" leads to violence against trans people is absolute bollocks.

The Emperor's New Clothes tale is interesting. As I remember a little boy calls it out, then when a few people in the crowd begin to titter everyone starts to laugh. It is crowd laughter that breaks the spell and reveals the truth. Lots in that isn't there? Cos laughter can be used to genuinely harm. But at the moment it seems to me that the power is genuinely in the hands of the men pushing this agenda against women. I've heard a lot lately about how comedy is dead in this climate.

www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/supreme-court-transgender-bathroom-gavin-grimm/2021/06/28/e51b47e6-d815-11eb-bb9e-70fda8c37057_story.html

I don’t know if this link will work, but the Washington Post reported yesterday that the Supreme Court refused to take on a case that would have allowed a school to restrict access to changing rooms based on sex not gender. The US is lost….

@Needmoresleep

www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/supreme-court-transgender-bathroom-gavin-grimm/2021/06/28/e51b47e6-d815-11eb-bb9e-70fda8c37057_story.html

I don’t know if this link will work, but the Washington Post reported yesterday that the Supreme Court refused to take on a case that would have allowed a school to restrict access to changing rooms based on sex not gender. The US is lost….

Jesus

I saw a reinterpretation of the Emperor's New Clothes recently that argued it was never about the clothes, it was about the Emperor's right to expose himself and dominate and cow the populace to such a degree that nobody could comment upon it.

This is exactly what it's about!

The salient point about the story is that it is a child who doesn't realise he's supposed to be cowed, and therefore speaks the truth. Once one person has spoken the truth, everyone else stops being afraid. (Unfortunately, that hasn't happened in this debate or, at least, it's happening more gradually.)

I'm interested in that refusal by the Supreme Court and I am not sure how 'lost' the US is. The SUpreme court may not have taken the case for various reasons, one being that they said they would have come to the same conclusion but there is another point. If the Supreme Court hears the case and upholds the judgement, it means that the whole of the US will be bound. At the moment individual states can take their cases. Isn't this about something Obama put in place, which was overturned by Trump and re-instated by Biden. They cannot bring it before the senate because it wouldn't succeed.

All very complex any US lawyers to comment?

It does say:

The court’s decision not to take up the case does not establish a national precedent, nor does it necessarily signal agreement with the lower court that sided with Grimm.

She's brilliant. Where is the first video, though, seems to have gone from her Insta?

There's a link to youtube in the other Wi Spa thread, in my op. Also on youtube you can see a dissection by Karen @ You're Kidding Right, which was good

Absolutely right about the lack of male solidarity - though in this case having more men pile into a room of naked females?

@Needmoresleep

www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/supreme-court-transgender-bathroom-gavin-grimm/2021/06/28/e51b47e6-d815-11eb-bb9e-70fda8c37057_story.html

I don’t know if this link will work, but the Washington Post reported yesterday that the Supreme Court refused to take on a case that would have allowed a school to restrict access to changing rooms based on sex not gender. The US is lost….

The judge referred to “fantastical fears and unfounded prejudices”.

Not a TRA, but the judge!

highame and ScreamingMeme et al, I’ve started a separate thread about the Supreme Court refusal in order to not derail this Wi Spa thread. Link is here if you’re interested:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4283517-US-Supreme-Court-refuses-to-hear-school-s-transgender-toilet-case?watched=1&msgid=108620129#108620129

peadarm, indeed.

The woman in the video understands. We all do. But the judge doesn't, nor does much of the US press. And here the Washington Post is far less woke than the NYT which is deep into Guardian territory.

The US is in a strange place on a number of issues. I just hope we can push back on their cultural imperialism.

Sorry, I looked for a thread, but did not see it. However relevant here as well.

[quote ShagMeRiggins]highame and ScreamingMeme et al, I’ve started a separate thread about the Supreme Court refusal in order to not derail this Wi Spa thread. Link is here if you’re interested:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4283517-US-Supreme-Court-refuses-to-hear-school-s-transgender-toilet-case?watched=1&msgid=108620129#108620129[/quote]
Thank you! Must admit I find US law and politics quite complicated.

The men standing round not saying/doing anything - might be partly because she didn't look like she needed help, she was perfectly capable...but, I suspect the truth is that most men operate on "bros before hoes".

But, then, DH is doing my nut in so I'm on a bit of a downer as far as people with Y chromosomes go today.

I suspect the truth is that most men operate on "bros before hoes".

I think there's also a group bonding thing with men, bonding by excluding or embarrassing or humiliating women is a thing.

That's a good point, Pleasant. I have seen that on awful reality shows - that one in Oz where they get married to someone they don't know is an example of "the boys banter". It's vile. and I watch it

I wonder, too, if on some level men feel that to back up a woman is a slippery slope. Who knows what could happen if women are allowed to get uppity?

@peadarm

Absolutely right about the lack of male solidarity - though in this case having more men pile into a room of naked females?

No need for that at all.

Ask the women if they were ok.

Say to them that's not right.

Talk to the people on the desk ask them what's going on. Why aren't they doing anything.

That sort of thing.

No need to pile in anywhere.

www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/wi-spa-video/?utm_content=buffer046b4&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

This was posted on Twitter with the following heading:

'Amid a right-wing boycott push, Wi Spa defends its decision to accommodate trans patrons, citing California law.'

The responsers are not having it.

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria

The men standing round not saying/doing anything - might be partly because she didn't look like she needed help, she was perfectly capable...but, I suspect the truth is that most men operate on "bros before hoes".

But, then, DH is doing my nut in so I'm on a bit of a downer as far as people with Y chromosomes go today.

No I don't buy that either. At all.

This dynamic is so common.

I remember once at work s bloke said something really sexist.

I said hold on that's not fair blah.

He argued he wasn't being sexist.

It went on for s while.

I was looking to my male colleagues who were all near and listening. Nothing.

In the end one said yeah it was a bit sexist. Hooray!

Over the afternoon 3 of the other men came up and quietly told me he was sexist, it was awful, can't believe he said that etc.

Standard standard.

I have loads of stories like that tbh.