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Original poster

TW in sport - Help wanted

53 replies

Tabasco007 · 24/04/2021 09:42

Morning All, name changed here, (not that I am big poster). I need some help in finding some information on TW in sport. My housemate is male, early 50's, he knows I don't believe that TWAW and that people can't change sex, and to be fair, I don't think he does either, but I find it really hard to explain it all to him. I have mentioned most of my concerns, but he seems to always bring up sport and it has generally come up after a few drinks - what I find is, he get a bit shouty and asks me to tell him the exact numbers, figures, evidence, which I then struggle to do. Personally I feel if one TW takes a medal off a women then its not fair, but he seems to be implying that if it not happening a lot, then why am I going on about it. He also works for a news desk and says it never comes up there. when we did get heated about this topic a month or so ago, he basically implied that women wanted equality, so we should just suck it up. Anyway, can someone direct me to clear links on TW in sport, I know I have seen stuff online, but can't seem to locate it now. Also was it british cycling that have now changed their policy to included anyone that says they are a women, will levels of testosterone come in to it? Thanks for your help.

OP posts:
NotBadConsidering · 24/04/2021 11:26
Grin
LostToucan · 24/04/2021 11:29

I’d also add the following, from a poster on a TW in women’s sport thread, because it’s always worth repeating:

A mediocre man taking part in women’s sport will win the gold medal for shamelessness every fucking time.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 24/04/2021 12:18

The coach I showed the photo to brought you the the subject because he has been watching some cycling competition and was bemused/confused/cross that there was something amiss in the ladies finals. He trains single sex teams and wasn’t impressed.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 24/04/2021 12:20

There’s also a college netball (volleyball?) team in the US that I’d often shown. So young women - on the team. Mostly young black women. This player seems to have been on the team for a long time too (I think I they are in their 40s). Much larger, older, white...

DialSquare · 24/04/2021 12:24

@NotBadConsidering

This is the photo. Feagaiga Stowers was 18 in this photo. She grew up poor, in foster care and was a victim of abuse as a child. This was her home games, in Samoa, where she was the flag bearer. Ask him, as a wokey blokey, if he thinks it’s fair that Stowers was beaten by a middle aged male from New Zealand whose family is worth millions.
This photo always sums it up for me. The life stories behind it and the faces of them all. Any one who thinks this is OK and still think they are progressive can fuck right off.
StillFemale · 24/04/2021 13:18

My heart breaks anew for Feagaiga every time I see this picture Sad

Mulletsaremisunderstood · 24/04/2021 13:20

What a deeply unpleasant person. Unfortunately, there are many men like this who have no skin in the game and can afford to be flippant because it doesn't affect them.

Men's sports will still be for men. It is women and girls who will pay the price. As a PP said, very average male bodied competitors will win medals in women's sport, erasing the concept of 'fair play'.

PermanentTemporary · 24/04/2021 13:21

The hidden differentials are often age and time training at a high level. Renee Richards was competitive on the women's tennis circuit in her 40s. She didn't win any big competitions but ranking points are important, they mean earnings, sponsorship etc. Likewise Rachel McKinnon won a Masters Women's World championship after what I think was less than 2 years' serious training on a bike. The typical performance peak is at early 30s after years of serious training.

lonel · 24/04/2021 13:23

I would ask him why he thinks women would NOT be disadvantaged? Has he never watched sports or done any? Does he think women are just not trying hard enough?Confused

theThreeofWeevils · 24/04/2021 13:29

he basically implied that women wanted equality, so we should just suck it up
A sure-fire misogynist indicator, that one, OP. PPs have given you some useful pointers on the sport question and I don't mean to derail, but your housemate sounds like someone to avoid as much as possible. And don't get drunk with him; I am not at all sure you would be safe.
Hope I'm overreacting.

LetsSplashMummy · 24/04/2021 13:32

Ask him if he thinks Lance Armstrong should have got a free pass, as he's only one man and it wasn't happening often?

Every cyclist that placed lower because of his unfair advantage was affected, as is every women who places below a male bodied competitor. At least he wasn't putting them at risk of physical injury like Fallon Fox or the rugby player who folds women like deckchairs.

andyoldlabour · 24/04/2021 13:33

theThreeofWeevils

"A sure-fire misogynist indicator, that one"

Unfortunately, back in 2018 when I posted on a cycling forum about McKinnon, a few sad people made the same kind of misogynistic remarks.

TinaBarrow · 24/04/2021 13:37

Emma Hilton is speaking on this today & there's still time to register:
Invitation to Feminist Question Time LIVE on Women’s sports,
with speakers from USA, Bahamas, France, Italy & UK

This Saturday - 24 April - 2pm (UTC)

This week’s speakers include:

Beth Stelzer, Founder of Save Women’s Sports, USA
Rochelle Dean, WHRC Country Contact for the Bahamas
Linda Weil-Curiel, Paris Bar Lawyer & General Secretary of the League for the International Rights of Women, France
Emma Hilton, @FondOfBeetles Developmental Biologist & co-founder of Sex Matters, UK

Register in advance for this webinar:
us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_Mq9EMIAbTkyNz5gAx4l2DQ

toffeebutterpopcorn · 24/04/2021 14:14

They are 50? How many of us were at college/uni with a 50 year old?

There’s always photos of our own glorious 44 (Australian football - or is it rugby? You can tell I’m a keen sports follower!)

BlackeyedSusan · 24/04/2021 17:08

Perhaps talk to him about the pyramid ...

If 1 transwomenwins one top level competition, it is not one person who misses out it is all the women and girls displaced further down the pyramid.

The woman that got silver not gold, the woman that got bronze not silver, the woman who didn't get a medal, all the way down through the league's of international, nationals, juniors, regional comps, etc,etc etc. Even park run some women have expressed unhappiness at not being the fastest woman and it is important to her.

Original poster
Tabasco007 · 25/04/2021 08:07

Wow, thanks so much people (did get a chance to login yesterday), you are all amazing! I will have a look through all of this and then try and have a conversation with him when I'm better prepared. Also once I'm up, had coffee, I'll be back with some more comments and thanks.

OP posts:
EmbarrassingAdmissions · 25/04/2021 10:00

@Tabasco007

Wow, thanks so much people (did get a chance to login yesterday), you are all amazing! I will have a look through all of this and then try and have a conversation with him when I'm better prepared. Also once I'm up, had coffee, I'll be back with some more comments and thanks.
Wasn't Emma's presentation good? I've seen many of the images before but to have such a wave after wave of them and to learn the stories of how many competitors had lost out to them - it was such an experience.

First time I've ever seen Valentina Perillo - and Emma made some interesting remarks about the timing of the blood tests, iirc.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4110515-Valentina-Petrillo-Italian-Paralympian-sprinter

Zinco · 25/04/2021 19:12

Veronica Ivy was on CNN recently:

eurochick · 25/04/2021 19:16

Sport has always been sex segregated. He is the one who apparently wants change, substituting gender for sex, so it is for him to justify. Don't feel obliged to play his games.

Zinco · 25/04/2021 19:19

From the youtube comments:

"This is like interviewing the Hamburglar on why you should legalize hamburger theft"

Syeknom · 25/04/2021 19:21

BBC News - Lauren Jeska jailed for Alexander Stadium stabbings
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-39266777

HermitsLife · 25/04/2021 21:05

I have mentioned most of my concerns, but he seems to always bring up sport and it has generally come up after a few drinks - what I find is, he get a bit shouty and asks me to tell him the exact numbers, figures, evidence, ... when we did get heated about this topic a month or so ago, he basically implied that women wanted equality, so we should just suck it up.

I think the problem you have is your housemate is a male chauvinist. If I was you I would just treat him as someone you happen to live with and don't get into late night drnken conversations with him.

He's not the only one who's happy to use this as an opportunity to shit on women, it's facinating seeing how far people will deny observable biological facts just to show their deep seated hatred of women. This isn't anything new, don't treat it like it is.

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