It is unacceptable for me to feel that I don’t like men?

[OliverBabish]

I got asked by my boss if I “hate men” - he’s not my boss anymore thankfully but my honest response is that I don’t like men very much. I’m not being an arse about it either - I’ve married a man, I’m aware there are ‘good men’ or whatever - that is truly how I feel.

Ignorant of me but I didn’t even know misandry was a thing (or that there was a word for it) until really recently.

Experience (and my job) has shown me time and time again that men are far more of a problem in our day to day society than women. I know I’d probably get into loads of trouble at work if I actually voiced that opinion, but generally speaking, is it that unacceptable for me to feel this way? Am I wrong to think like this? It doesn’t affect how I treat men, it’s just how I feel.

Fair enough. What if I said I don't like black people
No one would care unless and until you actively discriminate against them.

I just find most of them so boringly predictable and immature now. Like a pp said, under evolved, like cavemen

I work in quite a male dominated environment and honestly I'm just tired of men. I'm tired of listening to their opinions

They're only any good for shagging really. Warmer than a vibrator

I feel the same, nine times out of ten I find my interactions with them at best boring or disappointing and at worst abusive

I don't like men as a class

I do like some men but they are few and far between, and I wouldnt pick them out for company over other women

I dislike men very much

Keep having these conversations with friends and then realising some of them have sons!

Also, yes I am married to a man but i B only tolerate him in small doses

There's no possibility of my meeting any on here in real life but if I did and the conversation went along the lines above I'd make my excuses and leave.

This is really interesting.

I don’t dislike men per se (am married to one). But I dislike the way they are always put on a pedestal, boys too.

I generally find that most men are either a bit arrogant or a bit useless or self-entitled or emotionally stunted. Or a combo of all of the above.

I have yet to meet a man who I would like to be like (if I were a man).

@NiceGerbil

Cowbells can I ask you a couple of questions?

OP was in a conversation with a bloke about trump and said something which led him to ask if she was into all that 'feminist crap'.

She presumably made some kind of noise in the affirmative and he said 'do you hate men?'

In my read of that the man is

Starting from a certain not very open angle (a woman talking about ? Trump and women) means she is into 'feminist crap'

And then given some kind of affirmative (after he'd put her in a bit of a bind- say no no of course not and in the process sort of back off on whatever the original point was, or agree that she is into something he has strongly stated is crap)

Then when she goes with the latter leap to asking her if she hates men. So he clearly is assuming certain negative things about a whole group (feminists).

To me his side seems way more broad brush and unpleasant than hers.

Just occurred to me.

I've had this said to me before on men finding out I have feminist leanings.

It could go

Trump pussy grab abortion blah
Oh are into all that feminist crap
Erm well yes/yes a bit/I think the trump stuff is important
So. do you hate men.
No. Do you hate women

I simply cannot imagine that happening. I dread to think how the man would react!

Not sure what the questions were but if a man asks me if I am into 'all that feminism crap' I say, I'm a feminist. It's not crap. Then when they ask (because they do, it's true) 'Do you hate men?' I say, 'No. I hate misogyny. Feminism is about women being treated fairly. It's not about men.'

I have found that speaking gently (my generally preferred emotional state, not one put on to soothe a male ego) and taking the question seriously (again, my preferred response to anyone who asks something antagonistic, as usually there is fear behind antagonism) allows for a brief, no antagonistic chat which clears up some misconceptions and allows the previously aggressive man to either show interest and back down, or show his true colours as a bigoted tosser, in which case I drop him from all bit the most necessary social transactions.

I feel scared of men for my own reasons but I don’t dislike men, I know there are nice ones but I avoid them because they’re scary to me.

@RuggeryBuggery

I’m interested to know, those who dislike/don’t trust/are wary of men (and I do understand why), do you include gay men in that? Or is it less the case with them? As in, is it because of experiences of sexual harassment and attitudes towards women, or also other attitudes that are prominent amongst men?

Interesting question. For me, it's not an either/or thing: it's both the sexual harassment and other troubling aspects of male socialisation (e.g tendencies to talk over women, dominate space, etc.) that make me less likely to seek or enjoy the company of men. Gay men are not automatically immune to the latter.

Still, I have gay male friends that don't behave in domineering ways towards women. One straight male friend I can say the same about. He's Scandinavian and has a very feminist wife, both factors I believe makes a difference!

Some of the pps here who appear horrified by "misandry" and the thought of women not liking men as a group are (deliberately?) missing the point here. The dislike of men as a group women are voicing on this thread isn't based on irrational prejudice and hatred towards anyone with a penis, but on typical, common behaviours of many men. At least in my mind, we're talking issues of male socialisation here - or toxic masculinity or whatever you want to call it.

Yes, men being sexually predatory or in some other way domineering over women is very common. And yes, #notallmen. But honestly, I think many women are afraid to look too closely at this uncomfortable fact and/or would rather excuse it through myths about male psychology than face up to it.

@Name128535689953

This is really interesting.

I don’t dislike men per se (am married to one). But I dislike the way they are always put on a pedestal, boys too.

I generally find that most men are either a bit arrogant or a bit useless or self-entitled or emotionally stunted. Or a combo of all of the above.

I have yet to meet a man who I would like to be like (if I were a man).

There was a thread many moons ago when it was asked if we were men for a day (all other considerations aside like practicalities and the absolute fact it cant happen) what would we do. An amazing amount of us said first thing a wank, second thing go out alone on a night walk.

And I too have yet to meet one I would emulate.

[quote allthecarrotcake]@MissBarbary

Just to respond again to your post, if this website had named accounts and a man said half of these things about women they'd be disciplined at work, if not sacked. [/quote]
Have you been over to piston heads, have you ever looked on Twitter or reddit before the current furore? Men aren't even removed from these spaces for making rape or death threats at women.
In fact do you ever go onto Male dominated spaces (pretty much the rest of the internet) and take them to task for the blatant misogyny? If not, why not?

Also, just to say, as a woman of colour I am very much against CRT and unconscious bias training etc.
Yeah. My previous employer did it very well, by talking about human psychology, in groups and outgroups etc and never once talking about particular characteristics and biases.
I too am slightly wary about unconscious bias. I'm sure people do unconsciously categorise people based on stereotypes because that's how human brains develop and work. But I think the kind of people who display their prejudice in indirect interactions are probably on the whole aware somewhat of their bias and justify it. I personally would far rather that employers didn't tolerate bias or signs of bias, rather than saying it can be "unconscious". Think that can be a get out of jail free card for idiots.
Anyway, derail but I was interested in the point you made.

Just to respond again to your post, if this website had named accounts and a man said half of these things about women they'd be disciplined at work, if not sacked
Thats hilarious. I've seen men say worse than this on work systems and still not be sacked. Sometimes people are reluctant to even speak to them.

I actually did raise (not formally complain, just highlight it in a meeting I had) the fact that I had been asked if I hated men with my boss’ boss (who was a woman). She didn’t bat an eyelid. Men get away with all sorts in the workplace.

@GettingUntrapped

With regards to men being under evolved...Nature puts its best into females as they gestate and care for offspring.

So how does this work from a scientific perspective? If you carry a boy is it less stress on the body cos nature isn't as arsed about the outcome? Do you get boys because you're body isn't as able to carry as girl so you get the more deficient sex? Outcomes for premature boys is worse than for prem girls - is this nature trying to kill of boys because they're inferior?

Not fully caught up yet.

Just scrolling back to find where I was and saw that a man saying whatever would be sacked.

Just remembered a man at work saying

Yeah well the thing is that men never grow up. We're irresponsible and lazy. That's why we get to do the fun stuff and the women's job is to do the organising.

Then he smirked.

I don't remember him being sacked. Or anyone even raising an eyebrow.

Nature put it's best into women.

What a ridiculous thing to say.

Nature isn't sentient FGS.

If it had put it's 'best' into us wouldn't we be able to have babies without all the pain and risk for a start.

Sleeping the higher number of boys born coupled with the fact the infant mortality is higher is a thing.

I have read that when there are less of one sex in the community then more babies of that sex are born.

What the mechanisms are I don't know. It's not down to something women are doing in purpose and it's not down to nature being sentient.

I've got a husband, 3 sons and 3 grandsons. I like men, I've got a sister, 2 nieces, a daughter, 3 granddaughters. I like women.

There are some people I like but it is because of them not their sex.

Some people I dislike but it is because of them.

I also think it's worth remembering that some posts on here on both 'sides' will likely be people stirring things up for their own purposes.

Hard to tell obviously but threads like this do tend to attract a few.

Has there been a response to the women who express their 'misandy' by being wary of men in certain situations where they would not be with a woman?

If a young man feels wary walking past a group of young men in town but not old women is he being both misdarist and ageist?

Worth exploring.

@NiceGerbil

Not fully caught up yet.

Just scrolling back to find where I was and saw that a man saying whatever would be sacked.

Just remembered a man at work saying

Yeah well the thing is that men never grow up. We're irresponsible and lazy. That's why we get to do the fun stuff and the women's job is to do the organising.

Then he smirked.

I don't remember him being sacked. Or anyone even raising an eyebrow.

Exactly my point.

I think it’s more the societal constructs around men and their utter comfort within it that bothers me.

Men don’t have to get it right, they can get away with so much, and they generally know that. Some abuse that, some don’t, but the majority certainly don’t challenge it. That’s what I don’t like.

They are forgiven for so much more than women and

...and most seem to be oblivious or comfortable with that.

It's not really his business OliverBabish is it? But in your shoes I'd respond with something like, "Not at all, but I dislike some of their behaviours, same as most women" which I don't think is at all unusual, especially under the present climate. They're really not doing themselves any favours, are they?