It is unacceptable for me to feel that I don’t like men?

[OliverBabish]

I got asked by my boss if I “hate men” - he’s not my boss anymore thankfully but my honest response is that I don’t like men very much. I’m not being an arse about it either - I’ve married a man, I’m aware there are ‘good men’ or whatever - that is truly how I feel.

Ignorant of me but I didn’t even know misandry was a thing (or that there was a word for it) until really recently.

Experience (and my job) has shown me time and time again that men are far more of a problem in our day to day society than women. I know I’d probably get into loads of trouble at work if I actually voiced that opinion, but generally speaking, is it that unacceptable for me to feel this way? Am I wrong to think like this? It doesn’t affect how I treat men, it’s just how I feel.

'But I strongly suggest that we be critical when our feelings lead us to prejudice of 50 percent of the population and I would seek therapy to unpick those feelings.

However... I don’t think it’s ok to make statements like this. The same way I don’t think it’s ok to make misogynist statements. Because it falls under the same standards of treating people as individuals in their own rights.'

What's your view on many women being wary of men in certain situations, when they wouldn't be wary if it was a woman?

@DeepThinkingGirl

I just find most of them so boringly predictable and immature now. Like a pp said, under evolved, like cavemen.

I find opinions like this completely unhelpful in tackling the issues that are actually affecting women. Misandry also leads to abuse and arrogance. And this is how it starts

It's completely unhelpful. I can't imagine that outside this board many women would agree with such comments.

It reminds me of the way the most snobbish characters in Evelyn Waugh's novels talk about the working-class.

'Misandry also leads to abuse and arrogance. And this is how it starts'

Can you explain what exactly what abuse, how the arrogance manifests,

And what is meant by this is how it starts'.

How what starts?

I asked the poster who wrote that but I didn't see a reply.

I see that you agree so would be interested in your thoughts on those points.

Does every opinion expressed here have to be helpful in "tackling the issues that are actually affecting women"? Sounds intense.

I don’t dislike men, but the privilege and sense of entitlement comes from the physical strength a man naturally has, a man will stuff to another man and he’ll either laugh it off or trivialize it, unlike when it’s a woman. Most women are largely to blame for that entitlement as well.

@QuentinWinters

I always say if I'd been bitten by dogs as many times as I'd been assaulted by men, noone would think I was unreasonable tobe scared of dogs and stay out of their way.

Your feelings are your own, its not up to anyone else to judge. They don't have your experiences.

This really struck a chord with me. I’ll be using that!

I know it’s going to be an alien concept to some and frankly seem awful. I know that, it’s why I posted. Because it is a big deal isn’t it.

I wouldn’t say that when I meet a man I think immediately “I don’t like you”. I can’t explain it (I’m heavily pregnant and my brain has really gone to mush on me!) which is annoying seeing as I’ve started this conversation. But I do know that it is how I feel.

I love men and wouldn't want a life without them. I've had periods in my life where I was made miserable by men and women. I love my husband, my father, and all my male friends.

For those saying that it's not the same as saying you hate black people because "no one can police your thoughts", I hope you're ready to stand up and fight against the onslaught of unconscious bias training.

I feel fine round men most of the time. But wary and hypervigilant. I don't trust them and I don't like being alone with them. Even being in a lift alone worries me.

I was once rubbed up on by a man at a networking session at a work conference, while I was talking to another man. It was totally audacious, because it was busy and crowded I couldn't even be sure who did it because he came up behind me.

So why when random men are quite prepared to assault women in busy, well lit places are people on here telling me I have to like men and get therapy for my feelings?

@OliverBabish I'm assuming your baby is a girl?

"Unconscious bias" training will do nothing to address my so-called prejudice against men as 1) its not unconscious, I am conscious of it and 2) its rational and based on how men have behaved towards me, not based on stereotypes society tells me about men, which is what unconscious bias training addresses

@FixTheBone

Wow. just wow.

If I (or anyone else) said I don't like black people because they statistically commit more crime, we'd be lynched as racists.

Misandry is a thing, and it's just as wrong as misogyny.

Except they don't, it's not their skin colour, it's their circumstances (discrimination, poverty, unemployment, etc), and sex (male) that skews stats against PoC. And misandry doesn't effect men socially, it just makes them mad. Misogyny gets women assaulted, raped, killed, etc. It is absolutely NOT the same. Men's feelings ARE NOT more important than women's safety.

@SleepingStandingUp yes. Either would’ve been fine, I didn’t have a preference.

@DeepThinkingGirl

And in many ways celebrating those views is counter productive to feminism.

Because feminism is meant to achieve equality, not superiority.

No dignified man would want to Allie with a movement that would deem him inferior.

And we DO need them as allies, clearly.

Man is not the default here. And you actually believe that man is superior? Are you certain you want to say that?

@QuentinWinters

"Unconscious bias" training will do nothing to address my so-called prejudice against men as 1) its not unconscious, I am conscious of it and 2) its rational and based on how men have behaved towards me, not based on stereotypes society tells me about men, which is what unconscious bias training addresses

Interesting

Also, just to say, as a woman of colour I am very much against CRT and unconscious bias training etc. It might be generational but I have relatives who are worried too, feels like we are being allocated a victim status we didn't ask for.

Which of course applies to feminism. I don't really discuss this sort of thing in real life, but luckily real life seems to be less obsessed with this stuff.

"For those saying that it's not the same as saying you hate black people"
The main reason its not the same is because not a single woman on this thread has claimed to hate men.
When did 'dont like' turn to hate?
The two things are miles apart.

There is a difference between personal choice and preference, and acting in a prejudicial way. I've known gay men who don't particularly like women as a class or have any interest in their company. I've had lesbian friends who prefer separatist lifestyles. Neither went around the world acting in prejudicial ways and expressing loathing and prejudice against a sex class (misogyny and misandry): they just made choices and lived by preferences.

The two are getting blurred, and it is becoming regarded as some kind of social duty to control and dictate your emotions and choices by what is seen as politically good. It's quite an elitist political group who see these views as superior, and look down on those who won't fulfil them, and it's beginning to spread to a belief that women's rights to choose who accesses their bodies and their right to say no even should be predicated by the woman's political and social duty regardless of her feelings. I'm deeply bloody uncomfortable with this.

It's the kind of thing Gilbert and Sullivan were mocking in Victorian society over a century ago.

Oh is there not one maiden breast
who does not feel the moral beauty
of making wordly interest
subordinate to sense of duty?

As a lesbian, if I meet someone who doesn't agree with or approve of gay people, so long as they don't feel the need to explain it to me, use it as a reason to block me from things and generally have to be a twat about it, I'll just live around them.

Their likes, dislikes, personal feelings and prejudices are their problem. Live and let live. I don't agree with them, they don't agree with me, we're grown ups and we don't have to force this to a resolution or call each other names.

I’m interested to know, those who dislike/don’t trust/are wary of men (and I do understand why), do you include gay men in that? Or is it less the case with them?
As in, is it because of experiences of sexual harassment and attitudes towards women, or also other attitudes that are prominent amongst men?

Michelle I know exactly what you mean.

If someone makes an issue of my skin colour or my name, that's different. If I sense they don't want to be friendly, but they are polite, that's fine.

Well it would be more like a black person saying they dont like white people.
If black people would rather avoid white people because of bad experience I cant see the problem or say I would blame them.
We're not going around discriminating against men and telling them to their faces we dont like them..
Im not anyway, I just choose not to seek them out or be around them when I can help it.

And yes that includes gay men for me.

With regards to men being under evolved...Nature puts its best into females as they gestate and care for offspring.