It is unacceptable for me to feel that I don’t like men?

[OliverBabish]

I got asked by my boss if I “hate men” - he’s not my boss anymore thankfully but my honest response is that I don’t like men very much. I’m not being an arse about it either - I’ve married a man, I’m aware there are ‘good men’ or whatever - that is truly how I feel.

Ignorant of me but I didn’t even know misandry was a thing (or that there was a word for it) until really recently.

Experience (and my job) has shown me time and time again that men are far more of a problem in our day to day society than women. I know I’d probably get into loads of trouble at work if I actually voiced that opinion, but generally speaking, is it that unacceptable for me to feel this way? Am I wrong to think like this? It doesn’t affect how I treat men, it’s just how I feel.

And IME this happens not infrequently.

Like I said it's happened to me.

How it goes is.

Hello female work colleague! What do you think of X thing in the news relating to women? (Metoo, current rape trial, pay gap, anything and everything like that)

Erm. Well I think X and y

Oh god you're not a feminist are you?

Ah. (Cornered and in a no win situation). A bit, yes.

You hate men then?

I mean it's not uncommon and tbh it's deliberate. The question are you a feminist is always delivered in a way that leaves no doubt it's a Bad Thing.

And how the fuck do you respond to a male work colleague who you get on with and go for drinks with etc asking or stating that you hate men?

That's what happened to OP.

Baddie to me is the man.

@HarryHarryHarry

I don’t like men, even though I’m married to one. I find them pathetically base, like they’re somehow less evolved than us. I don’t like feeling that way, because I know it’s not quite fair, especially now that I have a son, but I don’t know how to overcome it.All I can do is try not to show it.

Your poor son.

Not liking men doesn't make you a better feminist. Although on MN liking men makes you a hand maiden or something.

And what is up with them thinking it's ok to corner you at the coffee machine and strike up a conversation about rape?

Happened to me more than once :/

And these were men I got on with and yes in the main liked. Which is why it's always so crap to get that sort of stuff at some point.

And makes you think, after years of that or other weird/ upsetting stuff from men you thought were friends.

Makes you think. Well. I'll be nice to this chap and friendly and go drinking and etc. But I'm not going to forget that time and time again they've exposed something about themselves eventually that I had no idea about and is a shock etc.

I'm straightforward, trusting in general. I start thinking people I meet are nice unless they give me reason to think otherwise.

For various reasons I have always had lots of male friends as well as female. And sometimes when they have decided you are one of the gang and forget you're female. And the things they come out with sometimes, Jesus. I have been known to say. Erm I am female you know.

Anyway. Random aside.

I think the man was out of line.

Misandry and misogyny are both wrong..

It goes against the narrative that human beings are equal

I think disliking any group of people based on something they can't control is inherently wrong.

For example, I hate that some people are born into wealth whilst others don't get enough to eat. But it's the systems that allow this level of inequality to exist that I dislike, not people who happen to be born into families with money.

Statistically, it's children who attend private schools that end up in positions of power and continue to allow the gap between rich and poor to exist. But If I posted that I dislike all the children who attend private schools, people would rightly think I was a bit of a dick.

Honestly, I know a few men I like but most I’ve met have been pathetic, boringly arrogant to cover up their insecurities, and abusive. They can’t think ahead or empathise. If I became single now I’d go for women or be alone. Not pleasant but neither is constantly living in fear. Today a male colleague locked me in the toilet for a joke. I just find most of them so boringly predictable and immature now. Like a pp said, under evolved, like cavemen.

*meant not pleasant as in disliking most men, not being with a woman or being alone!

Why are some people jumping in with the word hate??
Op didnt say she hates men.
I don't think any of us have said we do.
There's a world of difference between not liking something to hating it in my mind.
I wouldnt even go as far as to say I dislike most men, I dont like them, I'm just ambivalent about them, I don't seek them out for company because I dont particularly want to be around them.
"I don’t like feeling that way, because I know it’s not quite fair, especially now that I have a son, but I don’t know how to overcome it.All I can do is try not to show it."
Thats how I feel.
I feel this way for a reason from years of experience of being around boring, disappointing, ego driven, shouty, selfish, lazy, abusive, rapey men..
On that scale.
Maybe if I start having better experiences I can learn to like them more.
Im young, there's time.
But that's on men, not me.

I just find most of them so boringly predictable and immature now. Like a pp said, under evolved, like cavemen.

I find opinions like this completely unhelpful in tackling the issues that are actually affecting women. Misandry also leads to abuse and arrogance. And this is how it starts

@DeepThinkingGirl That’s my experience, if you’ve had different I’m happy for you, maybe there’s hope for humanity 😉

Regretsy

I’ve had plenty of bad experience at the hands of men,

But see it in reverse. If a man suffered abuse at the hands of his mother is it ok for him to grow up saying “I find all women hormonal and crazy and regressive ”? No, because that’s misogyny.

Unless we want to allow abused men to say these things then it makes absolutely no sense to label it as human rights to want women to be treated as seperate individuals not constricted to their biology.

'Misandry also leads to abuse and arrogance. And this is how it starts'

What abuse does it lead to?
When you look around the world, how is the arrogance of women who in their own heads feel like they don't like men very much, resulting in abuse of men?

This is how what starts?

Your post is strongly worded but it would be good to get some examples.

And I am not entirely comfortable with the idea that a woman who in her private thoughts, based on her experiences, thinks on the whole she doesn't like men much, but feels that isn't fair of her, and doesn't take it out on anyone, is just awful.

The man she was talking to told her with no prompting really, that feminism is crap, and feminists hate men. He didn't think it in his head, and think it's not fair, and make an effort not to let it affect anything.

He said it to her as a challenge and when she didn't say what he had indicated was the right answer, he asked her if she hated men.

Which one behaved worse? I think the man.

I see it differently and a matter of mistrust and not feeling safe around most men because of personal experiences. Other pp have used the snakes or dogs analogy. I would fully expect a man to not trust women if most of his experiences with women had been negative and unsafe/abusive ones. For me it’s a safety issue and all the other stuff just exacerbates how I feel I guess. I realise it’s a complicated issue once you start considering reasons for men being the main perpetrators of violent crime etc including our collective history and toxic masculinity and there are so many factors. However, my current feeling is mistrust and boredom given previous experiences and I’m afraid nobody can argue that away from me as I remember it all.

@NiceGerbil I agree. And OP in my convoluted way was trying to say of course it’s fine to feel how you do given experiences you’ve had.

The racism analogy doesn't work because men aren't the black people in this case, they are the white people. Say a black person had suffered from and witnessed so much racism and inequality their whole life. They then said that although it wouldn't effect their outward behaviour, deep down they didn't really like white people or feel comfortable with them, and didn't feel like they really got each other or could relate. So they choose to mainly socialise with and date other black people. I'd say that was quite understandable and fine.

Deep if a man had experienced incident after incident at the hands of women I would absolutely understand if he felt like he didn't like them much.

Who wouldn't?

NiceGerbil

Do you think a man would be able to express that in any safe space without being labelled or judged or socially ostracised ??

If a man feels this way I would honestly expect him to go get therapy as opposed to celebrating his views.

I would say same for women.

And in many ways celebrating those views is counter productive to feminism.

Because feminism is meant to achieve equality, not superiority.

No dignified man would want to Allie with a movement that would deem him inferior.

And we DO need them as allies, clearly.

In response to the posts aimed at me - I’m not saying it’s the right way to feel, or that it makes me a better feminist. I don’t think men actually are any better or worse than us. It is just how I feel, based on my experiences. You have no business making assumptions about my husband or my son. But it’s always the way on MN - the same posters waiting to pounce and tear other people down for expressing opinions that differ to their own, wilfully misinterpreting what has been said to make everything black/white, good/bad rather than conplex and nuanced. To me it speaks of a bizarre need to feel morally superior to strangers on the internet, which is really quite sad, and to make them reluctant to contribute honestly to a discussion. Do you ever think about the effect that your nastiness has on other people. Seriously, I don’t think I’m the one with the horrible attitude here.

I don't think it's fair to say that, any more than it would be fair to say you don't like Germans or similar. People are individuals.

You could say you don't like the patriarchy, that you don't like lad culture, you don't like toxic masculinity. But to meet someone and instantly dislike them because of their sex while knowing nothing about them seems unfair and wrong.

Because feminism is meant to achieve equality

I completely disagree with this. Men are not so glorious that they become the benchmark of what is possible for women.

Harry don't be upset please.

There are a fair few posters who have reacted to the incorrect interpretation of the OP that she hates men.

That's not what she said at all and you and I know that.

The posters with the more extreme views are not really interested I don't think in what happened with the OP, if you look there are no responses to the fact the man was way worse.

You were honest and responded to the OP genuinely with your feelings.

On the thread plenty of women have shared their experiences and said that as a result they feel X about men.

Saying your poor son was particularly nasty.

In the end it seems to be a thread that has drawn people who are keen to post about how awful women's thoughts in their heads are etc.

Call it a night and take care. Please don't dwell on those posts. The majority of the thread is not like that.

Where to start deepthink?

Why would a man with traumatic experiences leading him to feel that on the whole he doesn't like women, celebrate this?

How is the OP saying on the whole she doesn't like men much, but she knows it's unfair, a celebration?

The man she was talking to expressed a negative view of a group of people. No comments on that?

'No dignified man would want to Allie with a movement that would deem him inferior.'

But women have done and continue to do this in large numbers. What are your thoughts on the mechanism behind that?

And do you genuinely feel that no matter what the treatment at the hands of a group, feeling dislike for them in your head is a really bad thing?

My post was in response to Regretsy statement:

“ I just find most of them so boringly predictable and immature now. Like a pp said, under evolved, like cavemen.”

I’m not opposed to people having feelings based on experiences. But I strongly suggest that we be critical when our feelings lead us to prejudice of 50 percent of the population and I would seek therapy to unpick those feelings.

However... I don’t think it’s ok to make statements like this. The same way I don’t think it’s ok to make misogynist statements. Because it falls under the same standards of treating people as individuals in their own rights.

'Because feminism is meant to achieve equality, not superiority.'

I continue to be baffled at this sort of comment.

All because one woman when asked randomly by a man if she hated men, went and had a think, and thought actually I don't hate anyone but on the whole in general I don't like men very much?

She really does have an awful lot of power :/