Misogyny, the Manosphere and the UK playground

[ArabellaScott]

Worrying article on research by Laura Bates, founder of 'everyday sexism':

'"I was meeting boys who were really hardened against their female peers, they were completely dehumanizing their female peers, they very much saw women as sex objects but they also really believed there was this feminist conspiracy at the heart of government that was killing and taking away the livelihoods of white men.'

www.newsweek.com/misogyny-manosphere-spreading-playgrounds-terror-threat-1555462

My problem here is that it's by Laura Bates.

Bates doesn't know - or pretends not to know - the difference between 'sex' and 'gender'. She doesn't know - or pretends not to know - what a woman is.
As these are fairly easy things to get right I find it hard to trust her when she makes any other claims.

Depressing. I've read elsewhere that misogyny is now often used as a "gateway drug" to more extreme views.
You only have to look at the hate directed at women on social media to see that this is a problem. If any other protected characteristic group was treated like this then people would be banned, but the tech world that brought us Gamergate is complicit in the online misogyny.

Interesting & worrying read, chimes with concerns around pontification and influence of internet silos.

Blimmin eck pornification not pontification, of content kids are accessing online

@aliasundercover

My problem here is that it's by Laura Bates.

Bates doesn't know - or pretends not to know - the difference between 'sex' and 'gender'. She doesn't know - or pretends not to know - what a woman is.
As these are fairly easy things to get right I find it hard to trust her when she makes any other claims.

That's not what she said most recently was it?

I hear her say, radio, maybe Jeremy Vine or something on 4Extra, that she wasn't going to comment directly on that as it was not what her book was about. She had ONE message, one area of research and she wasn't going to dilute that by being sidetracked into another area of the debate.

Though I do remember her being insistent that transwomen had to be included in feminism... I had hoped the intervening years had changed her mind... as they have changed mine!

Read an excellent book on the topic last year, 'A Brief History of Misogyny: the world's oldest prejudice' by Jack Holland, 2006. Lots of cruel people throughout history but men seem especially prominent/good at dishing out horrible punishments.

Somehow it helps me to know there's really nothing new about misogyny, from Ancient Greece to Christian persecution & the witch trials, to the latest crop of small minded arseholes.

We are not that far from our chimpanzee relatives in all kinds of nasty, even sickening behaviours no matter how civilised we like to think we are 😬 Currently reading quite a lot of Jane Goodall's research into chimp behaviour, it's very illuminating.

@aliasundercover

My problem here is that it's by Laura Bates.

Bates doesn't know - or pretends not to know - the difference between 'sex' and 'gender'. She doesn't know - or pretends not to know - what a woman is.
As these are fairly easy things to get right I find it hard to trust her when she makes any other claims.

Hang on a sec. Surely you know from other sources that there is a problem with misogyny among boys. Throwing that in at post one the way you did makes it difficult to discuss. I'm very much not in favour of ideological purity tests - even when I'm on the 'right' side of the line.

LadyChappers good point. It's not at all surprising that extremists are taking a divide-and-conquer approach. It's been fascinating listening to the nutters who stormed the Capitol Building and thinking about how they became radicalised.

A Brief History of Misogyny: the world's oldest prejudice' by Jack Holland, 2006

Thanks! Going to see if I can get a copy!

Nice one Socrates

Wow. Blast from the past. Jack Holland and his wife Mary adopted DH and I when in NYC for a couple of weeks, back in 1999. We met them in a bar, got chatting about politics, then spent the rest of the fortnight with them. They introduced us to their incredibly interesting arty and literary friends, their daughter, her friends, had long discussions about politics, life, food, showed us the most interesting and groovy parts of NYC, made us dinner at their house and prepared a picnic for us in Central Park. It was an incredible time. He was warm, clever, kind, funny, astute and brilliant as was lovely Mary and they were such a special and generous couple. I didn't know he had written a book on misogyny but if any man could pull this off, it would be him.

Am going to buy it now.

Also ordering!

TimeforLaChange, the forward may bring a tear to your eye (it did mine and I've never met the man) as it's written by his daughter.

It's a cracking, well researched book that shows misogyny has rarely gone out of fashion. The quote is regarding the Eve and Pandora myths that we've never really seemed to move away from...

@FireUnderTheHand

A Brief History of Misogyny: the world's oldest prejudice' by Jack Holland, 2006

Thanks! Going to see if I can get a copy!

It will be delivered to me next week! Yay!