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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Buffy's getting cancelled?

50 replies

Kettlingur · 15/07/2020 22:32

Apparently Joss Whedon has liked J.K.Rowling's tweets.

OP posts:
AnneOfQueenSables · 15/07/2020 23:39

There's lots of issues with Joss but I'm pleased he has supported JK on this.

Icantreachthepretzels · 15/07/2020 23:43

James Marsters told a story about Joss Whedon pinning him up against a wall and yelling at him on Michael Rosenbaum's podcast. Charisma Carpenter has been talking about the way she was treated again recently ... nothing ever happens to Joss Whedon, no matter how many people say he is awful.

If him liking a tweet brought him down it would only go to show how much power the trans lobby has .

However there was a discussion on the Buffy Boards about JKR/ Maya Forstater back in January. I argued the case, most people on the thread were sympathetic and 'got it' when I laid it all out.

One person argued the opposing side. They described Karen White as 'there'll always be a few apples' and when I asked how they defined a woman they said 'honestly - anyone who says they are one, and if they changed their mind the next day I'd accept that too because it's complicated' ... I think they did a better job of peaking people than I did.

Most of them had never really come across any of this before - and, like most members of the public, sided with reality. I'm sure there are trans Buffy fans, but as with the real world, the TRA science deniers will be less than 0.001% of the group. And the rest of them will have to have the show pried from their cold, dead hands.

But pretty much the entire concept of the show is surely horrendously transphobic? 'one girl in all the world'? Do trans women think they can be slayers? Would a trans man slayer be a disgusting transphobic lie on a level with claiming only females could get cervical cancer? Don't think the ancient prophecy takes into account gender feelz.

Becoming Part one is on E4 right now. I will have my tissues ready for tomorrow.

FloralBunting · 15/07/2020 23:44

That looks doctored to me.

And to underline, nothing will be cancelled around Whedon further than it already has been.

Apart from being a woman, the reason the TRAs came down so damned hard on JKR in the first place is because she wasn't considered even slightly unwoke. The fury and impotent rage that has followed is largely due to the incredible surprise the wokesters had because they thought she was definitely a true believer, and she turned out to be a heretic and wouldn't recant, no matter what they did. They expected her to fold immediately because they thought she was one of them.

They don't see Whedon that way, he's been 'problematic' for a long time, so it makes no odds, but also, being a man, he has all the privilege that goes with that so it hasn't really affected him, nor will it.

Icantreachthepretzels · 15/07/2020 23:52

He also liked Stephen King's 'TWAW but I like free speech' tweet according to the (11) replies that screen grab has. He probably just liked her ovaries tweet because he thought it was funny, which to be fair ...

RedToothBrush · 16/07/2020 00:09

Oh god the nerds are going to IMPLODE!

ContentiousOne · 16/07/2020 01:34

Ooh,this one will be tough for someone I know. Young, loves Buffy, thinks JKR is racist and homophobic.

ShinyFootball · 16/07/2020 01:43

'FYI: it was announced last year there was a Buffy reboot in the works with a 'richly diverse' cast (specifically a black Slayer).'

Original Buffy had black Slayer. Lesbians. Bisexuality.

No one can cancel Buffy. It was ground breaking.

And he's a bloke so they will go easy anyway.

MrsTerryPratchett · 16/07/2020 01:59

Sorry. So when he was a misogynist, who abused his wife and treated poor Charisma horribly, that was 100% fucking fine. But liking JK's tweets are an issue.

Some animals really are more fucking equal than others.

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 16/07/2020 02:04

RufustheRowlingReindeer
We are now watching tabula rasa
Ahh such a brilliant episode albeit a very sad ending

Love Buffy
JW talks a good game (there is some quote of his when someone asked why he writes such strong female characters & he says because you’re still asking that question) but can’t play at all (apparently treated CC like crap & basically wrecked her character in Angel as revenge for her daring to get pregnant Hmm)

He has a penis though so they won’t send him rape & death threats - almost like they recognise sex Grin

AnneOfQueenSables · 16/07/2020 02:26

They won't send him threats because he liked the TWAW tweets from Stephen King.
Although I love Buffy, I'm more comfortable with Joss not being on our side on this tbh. He seems to treat women appallingly and the LGB community have already analysed the latent homophobia in Buffy. That's the problem when you have a seminal show - there are books full of articles about every aspect of it.

CourtneyLurve · 16/07/2020 07:43

I'm the first person to tear down shitty men and while he sounds like he could be a jerk at times (and a terrible husband), his work mostly stands up. You can't judge Buffy on today's insane standards. It WAS groundbreaking at the time and he and the team deserve a lot of credit for it.

He also wrote Toy Story, btw. Let's see people try and cancel that. Grin

JustTurtlesAllTheWayDown · 16/07/2020 09:46

Interesting. Good example of discussion around separating artist from the art.
Whedon is massively talented and also a bit of an arse. There've been quite a few allegations about him over the years.
I still absolutely love Buffy. It hasn't aged much (imo) and is still stonkingly good.
It'll be interesting where he comes out on all this.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 16/07/2020 10:42

I'm predicting a backlash centered about "white c*s women" being "problematic" and almost complete ignoring of Whedon himself, possibly a bit of "poor man's been influenced by nasty women in his life, let's find out who they are so we can cancel them instead of him".

McSilkson · 16/07/2020 11:40

[quote notyourhandmaid]**@BigBadVoodooHat* But what’s interesting to me about this is whether there’ll be a campaign to ‘eradicate’ Buffy in the same way there was with Harry Potter.* Male creator, so my guess is no.

(Although agree with all your points on the similarities between the universes! And there's a bit in Buffy where Riley actually says he's a lesbian, which could be now either read as 'hate speech'/'literal violence' or evidence that actually Riley was trans.)[/quote]
...Or evidence that Riley actually had a sense of humour... Who knew? (Really, how is he "boring"? He's a secret super-soldier for Chrissakes. And his personality is practically sparkling compared to the Angel of BtVS...)

AnneOfQueenSables · 16/07/2020 18:02

Interesting that the bad publicity around Joss just now is about his attitude to men ie the actor who played Cyborg on Justice League is calling him out; James Marsters is saying Joss put him up against a wall.
I wonder if this is all a co-incidence or if the TRAs have learnt from the Baroness Nicholson example and realised that it's easier to get 'difficult' people cancelled for other issues eg when they realised that opening up a discussion about the reality of sex made more people peak transed, they turned it into an issue of equal marriage instead. Now, Joss isn't being called out about transphobia but about shitty behaviour on set to males obviously ... because no-one seemed to care when it was Charisma.

FWRLurker · 16/07/2020 18:06

Joss is a bit of a creep apparently but I do think his work is great and at least pop feminist/feminist-light in nature.

Buffy as a character and SMG Herself are simply brilliant.

CaveMum · 16/07/2020 18:20

The gif of Buffy spinning her stake from S4 Ep1 (I think) is my go to “Let’s do this” gif Grin

I watched The Pack (S1) again the other night, it was the first ever episode I saw when Buffy was on BBC2. God that show had an amazing soundtrack!

TeiTetua · 16/07/2020 18:29

And while this topic is running, let's have a little nostalgia for BuffyTheReasonableFeminist. Which she was, and no doubt still is, but not here.

RufustheRowlingReindeer · 16/07/2020 18:34

@TeiTetua

And while this topic is running, let's have a little nostalgia for BuffyTheReasonableFeminist. Which she was, and no doubt still is, but not here.
Wine
AnneOfQueenSables · 16/07/2020 18:42

In some ways the time of BuffyTheReasonableFeminist seem so long ago but Gin toast to Buffy and her reasonableness Smile

sueelleker · 16/07/2020 18:59

We are now watching tabula rasa That's my second favourite, after 'Once More With Feeling'.

QuarantineDream · 16/07/2020 20:28

Reminds me of this American case from last year www.denverpost.com/2019/01/05/phoenix-woman-vegetative-state-birth-rape/

QuarantineDream · 16/07/2020 20:28

Whoops wrong thread, sorry!

RufustheRowlingReindeer · 16/07/2020 22:58

That's my second favourite, after 'Once More With Feeling

I was trying to avoid dh putting this on for the eleventy billionth time

Once more with feeling and the trolls holiday episode are his go to...its a rare month that passes With one or the other....or both🤔

RufustheRowlingReindeer · 16/07/2020 22:58

Oh arse...bold fail

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