Giles Coren in the Times

[Chitlin]

Bless him, screwing his courage to the sticking place.

You might as well come right out and say it, Giles. The TRAs won't be fooled by your minor obfuscations, and neither are we.

(Assuming Esther is a MNer?)

'If you’re a dim young actor who’s never read a book or formed a real opinion then just say “I stand four square with anyone who doesn’t feel seen by the Sorting Hat” and — woohoo! — you’re a Gen-Z identity hero and proud recipient of the Order of the Golden Snowflake.'

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/wed-better-hope-its-not-a-z-shaped-recovery-72s08895r

I get the impression that Giles Coren understands his position and his privilege perfectly well, and plays up his 'hey, I'm anti-everything' while being knowing establishment. It's often quite funny. I don't think he'd consider himself a feminist ally.

WRT to Jane Goodall interview, that did actually happen, she is a primatologist and the quotes were accurate - it's from MM's Vogue guest edit - and both were at the height of their private jet smorgasbording as Harry so earnestly agreed to limit their family...

Thanks for the clarification on the Jane Goodall quote. Context really is important sometimes!

I don’t get why Harry talking to Jane Goodall about family planning is racist. Unless it’s a 6 degrees of separation. Jane knows about monkeys. Harry spoke to Jane. Harry is married to Meghan. Meghan is mixed race. Mixed race people have been likened by racists to monkeys. Jane knows about monkeys.

Allies always feels a bit playground to me. No room for nuance or debate. You're either in my gang or you're nobody.

To be clear, I think around 98% of the criticism MM gets is based on her race, I'm just not convinced this was.

@MondayYogurt

Dido - I've posted a screenshot of what he said.

Here's another of his tidbits. But I'm sure he's just having some light hearted racist fun.

Eh? Surely that is a reference to jane goodall, a world leading expert in gorillas i believe, not a reference to meghan markle I think the film Gorrillas in the mist is based on her life. She is quite famous! Talk about getting the wrong end of the stick

I agree, @sashagabadon, and as a fully paid-up fan of David Attenborough I'd like to point out that chimps aren't monkeys (and neither are gorillas, you might be thinking of Dian Fossey who was a gorilla expert).

If you have been reading the times regularly you will know that Giles nearly had a breakdown during the lockdown, this is the tame end of what has been said unfortunately. I am assuming he is still feeling a bit unhinged. Julia HB gave him half an inch, and in my view had no need to mention anyone 'tits' and he took his chance to savage Emma Watson.

All pretty disgusting is you ask me...low grade garbage from people that really should know better. Disappointing to say the least, but it seems to me that the wheels are coming off in the House of Giles.

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

I agree, *@sashagabadon*, and as a fully paid-up fan of David Attenborough I'd like to point out that chimps aren't monkeys (and neither are gorillas, you might be thinking of Dian Fossey who was a gorilla expert).

You"re right , i have got jane and diane mixed up I got the wrong end of the stick too

@MondayYogurt

Yes we should all laugh at her little tits haha the stupid hoyden! She should learn her place, shutting up and being a good little compliant woman.

He could have talked about anything, her wooden acting etc, but he chose TITS and HOYDEN because that's what misogynists do - strip us down to our bodies and then declare them not good enough.

I'm no Watson fan but I'm also not going to make excuses for a man who writes about Meghan Markle and monkeys in the same paragraph.

He's a dick.

He chose tits because Emma Watson had chosen to be photographed with her tits only just covered. She then referred to them as 'tits' in an publicity-seeking convo with a friend. That's a world away from referring to a woman's tits just because she's famous.

He didn't write about monkeys and Megan Markle. He wrote about Megan and Harry meeting Dr Jane Goodall. She is a primatologist. You are being utterly ridiculous.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Goodall

;)

I would agree about the six degrees of separation between an ecologist/primatologist and any suggestion of racism against MM. I did not read it that way at all. I think there has to be a lot of creative thinking to perceive that comment as racist, a bit like those people who somehow manage to make every innocent statement into an innuendo.

I don’t think Coren would ever be a feminist ally though.

Seeing a reference to a Harry meeting a famous expert and him discussing something irrelevant to her field of expertise, and getting 'writing about monkeys' from it is a bit weird tbh.

I really went off him after the sofa-shagging article.

(It's still online, www.esquire.com/uk/culture/news/a9819/giles-coren-masturbation-farewell-to-palms/ but be warned, you'll need a strong stomach)

Giles Coren is not a pleasant human being IMHO. I still like this column. He's not an 'ally' but he is providing a tiny bit of sunlight.

I suspect Monday yoghurt is having a joke. Perhaps his sister Victoria in a thinly veiled disguise

@ValancyRedfern

Giles Coren is not a pleasant human being IMHO. I still like this column. He's not an 'ally' but he is providing a tiny bit of sunlight.

Who cares what you think of him 'as a human being'? Why is this relevant to anything?

And in what other way could he possibly be judged other than as a human being?

As an historic monument? As a turnip?

What a strange thing to write.

@sashagabadon

I suspect Monday yoghurt is having a joke. Perhaps his sister Victoria in a thinly veiled disguise

It reads a lot like Giles himself.

I don’t think Coren would ever be a feminist ally though

So what? I don't get this notion that anyone who speaks a bit of common sense on matters such as JKR , trans extremism, curbs on free speech, e.g Giles Coren, Jordan Peterson, Douglas Murray, Blaire White, Julia Hartley- Brewer has to be measured and found failing if they aren't a "feminist ally"

The more people who ridicule ridiculous things the better. It's good to reach people who aren't allies.

If you draw a distribution curve of attitudes to the rights of women to retain single sex spaces, GC feminists would be at the extreme left and TRA's the extreme - never going to change - right.

We have allies and early adopters on the upward curve and, I believe a substantial early majority. The late majority are probably on our side too, but don't recognise It as enough of a problem. Yet.

If people like Giles can get the majority to just think about it a little bit more, it makes it harder for the laggards and resisters.

I've read enough of Giles Coren to know he has a pretty unpleasant set of racist and sexist attitudes. But the one thing you can say for him is that he has no qualms about saying what he thinks.

Think for a moment about the people who peddle TWAW. No one, apart from a few nutters, actually believes TWAW because it makes as much sense as believing the earth is flat. So the people who go along with it are either extreme woman-haters (of the Morgane Oger variety), or they are desperate to gain woke points, or they're terrified of being "cancelled".

That's a pretty large group of people. What you have left is everyone who doesn't care about being seen to be woke, or isn't terrified of being cancelled, or for whom the fear of those things isn't as great as their passionate commitment to the safety of women and girls.

That's why that small group is made up of a combination of people like us - who care about women and girls - and people who don't care what others think about them, like Giles Coren, Brendan O'Neill, Ann Widdecombe, Julia Hartley-Brewer. It feels like an unholy alliance, but it logically makes sense.