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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JY - update article

49 replies

NellieEllie · 03/07/2019 09:45

This really does just bring a legal system into disrepute if this stuff really has to be considered. www.jccf.ca/justice-centre-representing-three-more-bc-aestheticians-facing-human-rights-complaints-over-refusal-to-perform-waxing-service/

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Latinista · 04/07/2019 20:26

“Is this a trades description bit of idiocy in that the criticism is that these practitioners should not be allowed to say they provide waxing services for 'women' unless they provide waxing for all forms of genitalia including cocks and balls?”

I’m guessing it is being argued that the practitioners should already know that anyone can be (irl “say they are”) a woman and therefore should be waxed regardless of presenting a full set of male uglies. Or else it is the thing about reinforcing their fantasies through “care and grooming” activities that are normally associated with female bodies. Jeez.

EweSurname · 05/07/2019 07:43

Someone went to the hearing

mobile.twitter.com/goinglikeelsie/status/1146951983347032064

Michelleoftheresistance · 05/07/2019 10:58

God. It really does sound as if what is on trial is women's right to say no or set limits around their own qualifications. Why the hell is an expert for the defence having to justify why some waxers ^don't want to qualify in waxing mens bits* by explaining the erections, the clients who then want to masturbate and the ones who then demand sexual services and get angry when told no.

Women are actually having to defend not wanting to take this shit in a court of law, because it's upsetting for (a particular type of) men when they won't.

Stop the fucking planet, I want to get off.

Datun · 05/07/2019 12:31

Why the hell is an expert for the defence having to justify why some waxers ^don't want to qualify in waxing mens bits by explaining the erections, the clients who then want to masturbate and the ones who then demand sexual services and get angry when told no.*

Women are actually having to defend not wanting to take this shit in a court of law, because it's upsetting for (a particular type of) men when they won't.

It's literally almost unbelievable that this has come to pass.

I can't help thinking that someone, somewhere, will wake up and say hang on a minute this isn't right.

But I have no recent evidence that this can happen. If we carry on as we are, these women will be forced to touch this man. Or lose their livelihood.

We're going back to the dark ages.

JellySlice · 05/07/2019 13:07

This situation is surreal, incomprehensible, so unbelievable, that every time I hear about JYaniv I can't help wondering whether this person is actually a performance artist demonstrating the ludicrousness of trans ideology and the extremes to which it will be taken.

How on earth can it actually be being taken seriously and sincerely by the Canadian courts?

DanaPhoenix · 05/07/2019 13:15

Oh Canada. Frankly as an Aussie I'm reluctant to say that, but WTFF.

I seem to get a sense that JY is just loving the online baiting. I'd urge those on twitter to tread carefully, hard to do, but if not themselves I suspect they have a sympathetic group mass reporting on their behalf.

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 05/07/2019 15:31

If JY gets away with this, there is no hope for women in Canada.

Michelleoftheresistance · 05/07/2019 16:07

There is hope for women in Canada, what we'll eventually see is a major rebellion of women across the western world, and it will get very ugly. But if that's what they're going to be forced into, so be it. We're standing on ground our Grandmothers gained to the point where we can post here saying fuck the fuck off my rights. Something women would not have been able to say, never mind share across the world 50 years ago.

Datun I seriously can't see a court deciding a practitioner is guilty of whatever JY is accusing them of, (transphobia? denying human rights?) for not having the qualifications needed to do what he was asking them to do, and explaining this to him. It's wholly irrational. It's like walking into a hairdressers and demanding that they pierce your ears. They can't. They don't have the qualifications, they're liable if they say ok and make a stab at doing something they don't hold the equipment or training to do. That isn't 'transphobia', it's nothing to do with JY's 'gender', it's basic professional practice.

The most that can come of this is reproachful recommendations that anyone advertising services for 'women' should in future move to either providing mixed sex services or specifying the body part they specifically service, so onto vulva owners/labia havers etc. (That won't be fool proof against some idiot insisting his penis is a differently shaped labia, but that can go to court too.) I honestly don't see any other possible path here.

Unless someone high up has said, take this to the absolute nth degree, do it as sympathetically and kindly as possible but publicly and legally put boundaries around how far male born people can push women over this stuff. Otherwise I seriously have no idea what the hell this court is playing at.

Michelleoftheresistance · 05/07/2019 16:11

We're standing on ground our Grandmothers gained to the point where we can post here saying fuck the fuck off my rights. Something women would not have been able to say... 50 years ago.

Actually that's badly put, I descend from working women who had no difficulty whatsoever in telling groups of drunk sailors or soldiers to get their act together or fuck off and took no shit from anyone. We need to be channelling them a whole lot more. What I meant was that your average 'nice girl' or 'ordinary woman' didn't use that kind of vocabulary or assertiveness around men, and they bloody well do now. If you read around on AIBU for five minutes you find crowds of women who call it for what it is and aren't going to be pushed around by anyone.

Datun · 05/07/2019 16:36

Datun I seriously can't see a court deciding a practitioner is guilty of whatever JY is accusing them of, (transphobia? denying human rights?) for not having the qualifications needed to do what he was asking them to do, and explaining this to him. It's wholly irrational. It's like walking into a hairdressers and demanding that they pierce your ears. They can't. They don't have the qualifications, they're liable if they say ok and make a stab at doing something they don't hold the equipment or training to do. That isn't 'transphobia', it's nothing to do with JY's 'gender', it's basic professional practice.

Yes, but as then you go on to say, it will be about body parts. Not the fact that this is a fucking perv trying to force women to touch him sexually.

It appears that with the laws they have there is absolutely no room for nuance. Even nuance that comes out brandishing a gun and blowing your head off with its transparency.

Datun · 05/07/2019 16:43

There should not be laws in place to allow this to happen. If there are, they need to be repealed. It's not good enough, that at the eleventh hour, someone says wait a minute we can use the fact they're not trained, phew!

The same with whashisname who tied up the rape refuge for 12 years.

A nonsense law that allows that to happen should be repealed. The amount of money, time and effort that went into finding ways for that bloke to not get what he wanted is ridiculous.

FannyCann · 06/07/2019 07:15

Update from the courts. Sounds a bit of a circus going on. I hope this person doesn't get deleted off Twitter for their reporting efforts.

twitter.com/goinglikeelsie/status/1147298329815998464?s=21

AlwaysComingHome · 06/07/2019 12:37

You can’t have a circus with only clowns.

FannyCann · 08/07/2019 00:07

More update from the courts. Shocking. This is not being covered by any journalists apparently.

twitter.com/goinglikeelsie/status/1147905523347365888?s=21

JY - update article
AlunWynsKnee · 08/07/2019 00:43

Could she do the waxing whilst JY on their period?! JY is utterly obsessed with periods.

BatShite · 08/07/2019 02:42

The tweeting of the case is fantastic. It sounds to have been predictably ridiculous so far. Not surprised one bit about Yaniv using fake accounts to ask if somene could wax him when hes on his period Hmm to 'check if they are professional as a professional would'. Ugh the guy is just vile.

Mrstwiddle · 08/07/2019 03:14

I can confirm, living in BC, the only time this case has come up in the local media (that I’m aware of) was when he originally starting suing various individuals. Then, it was covered on the national radio station, sympathetically of course.

Michelleoftheresistance · 08/07/2019 10:17

Good grief, what a circus. The court's tolerance is amazing, those poor people.

And yes, the tampon bit makes it clear sexual fetish played a role in this. I don't believe we actually need the precedent set in law that treatment predicated on the reality of biological sex in a situation where biological sex plays a crucial role is like discrimination on grounds of colour or race. This has to be where someone's right to have their fantasies unconditionally validated is given legal limits.

Datun · 08/07/2019 10:33

Isn't the reason why they're not reporting this because in an earlier hearing, JY got them to rule that JY's identity should be confidential, as his trans status needed protecting?

Also they report by saying 'a man' to explain the penis (misgendering), they can't say transwoman (outing). I suppose they could say woman with a penis though? Except they may consider that outing as well.

Stupid, really stupid, short-sighted and sexist.

Satterthwaite · 08/07/2019 11:24

WTAF is going on with that parent though?

No wonder the person has ishoos

Whackitupto200 · 08/07/2019 11:34

This has gone too far now. It’s obvious to anyone that Yanomami is seriously mentally ill and should be treated appropriately.

Whackitupto200 · 08/07/2019 11:34

*Yaniv

Wtf is Yanomami???

MagneticSingularity · 08/07/2019 12:52

Whackitupto200 The Yanomami are an indigenous tribe who live in the Amazon. Interesting fact - menstrual blood is considered to be poisonous by the Yanomami so Yanomami women are isolated in special huts where they dug holes in the ground for the menstrual blood to flow into during their period. During a girl’s first period she is not only isolated but is not allowed to touch food and has to be fed with a stick. When that period is over she will be considered to be a woman and will be handed over by her father to some man to be one of his wives.
So, you know, same old same old patriarchal shit.

Whackitupto200 · 08/07/2019 17:50

Wow. Yaniv would be all over that. “Need a tampon inserting?”

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