04/03/2019 BBC Scotland - The Nine - Transgender Footballer

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

On in a moment for viewers in Scotland...

The trail said to discuss the issue of transgender athletes (I am paraphrasing)

Background:

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/47438175

From the link ^

""They need to look at the science, what it actually does to your body," she told BBC Scotland.

"It does take away your muscle mass, your explosiveness. Your ratios from type-one to type-two fast-twitch fibres change - your body completely changes. I don't think they realise how much of a change hormone therapy makes.

"There is absolutely no advantage on the pitch."

"Usually after a game, girls come up to me and say, 'I'm so glad to see you play because it's making the sport more inclusive'."

On now ...

Those criticising should study science

Examples, Laurel Hubbard, Rachel McKinnon

FtM accepted but rare

MtF more controversial - no surgery, testosterone suppression, regularly checks

Knew since they were 4
Tried to hide it
Lived as a man until 2017
Thought becoming a woman would end football
Aberdeen Uni women's team took them on
1 of 3 registered transgender players in Scotland

Interesting this player is a goalie.

I used to play women's football. One of the ongoing issues is that the goal - 8' to the crossbar, 8 yards wide - favours tall men. It is very hard for a women's team, particularly an amateur team, to find a 6' goalie capable of "covering" the goal mouth adequately. That's why 8-0, 8-1 scorelines are not uncommon in women's Sunday league. All you need is a half decent striker and a weak back 4 and the goalie is stuffed, because she can't get to the corners adequately.

Forget fast and slow twitch muscles, and how much a male body needs to be weakened before the sports authorities consider it "fair" - male stature alone is a massive, massive advantage for a goalkeeper in women's football. And although the bell curves overlap quite a bit, 14% of men are over 6', but only 1% of women.

Critics need to look at science, what is does to body.

Debate just started, sorting bodies scrambling to keep up

Barriers coming down go and play.

Sharron Davies and Rachel McKinnon both appearing

Saw the BBC piece earlier

Weakened man =woman

No its doesnt fuck off and take your misogyny with you

Davies - people scared to speak out, came out to help protect women's sports

Um.... there’s no physical advantage? I look at the photo and -yup - straight away the trans athlete is apparent.

Are you saying that science shows that I should not criticise? Hmm I do hope not. I only have up to A level biology but I’m pretty sure that a bit of doping stops a man’s body being a man’s body.

• does not

Davies - 99.9% athletes against transwomen in women's sports. Not a transgender issue, but level playing field important.

Points out that required T level is twice that of women.

Debate important and studies.

Transwomen has increased 1000% in past few years, will become an issue soon.

Scottish Athletics.looling at a third category + non binary.

Transgender games?

McKinnon (DR)

Says Davies is transphobic - gives dictionary definition of tphobia.

Not a new issue , Trans people could compete in Olympics since 2004. Not a single track s athlete has ever won at an elite level (I thought they had?)

Presenter - how is it possible to have a debate without being accused of transphobia

McKinnon - need to follow science not feelings

Presenter - let's look at fact. Basic biology, male puberty = bigger heart / / lungs / longer limsb. Is suppressing testis enough

McKinnon - within 12 months of therapy chang. All sci evidence shows endogenous testosterone has no impact on performance. Many high performing male athletes have less testosterone than female athletes. Lowest testosterone men same as lowest testosterone women

Davie - final word as accused of transphobia.

Points out that accusing people of transphobia all the time devalues word and stifles debate. Says McKinnons science very wrong.

did you see this bit at the end? Maybe they thought noone would get that far...

"What does medicine say?

Professor John Brewer, professor of applied sport science at St Mary's University, told BBC Radio 5 Live: "Whether we like it or not, genetically the very best males will nearly always beat the very best females in most sports where physicality is critical.

"If you have those physical and physiological characteristics of a male athlete and you are competing in a female environment, then you will inevitably do extremely well and have an advantage."

Brewer says males "tend to have more testosterone" that stimulates muscle growth and their "legacy physiology" (larger heart and lungs) does not necessarily change despite the transition process.

He added: "So, inevitably, when you go into high-performance sport, where the difference between success and failure is quite small, that 'legacy physiology' alongside the muscle growth testosterone creates will give, almost inevitably, transgender athletes/individuals a physiological and indeed a performance advantage."

The "low endogenous testosterone in men" argument tends to neglect to mention that it is suspected that in some (many?) cases, this is an after effect of off-season exogenous doping with testosterone. The body's natural production drops off and takes a while to recover.

did you see this bit at the end

I did. It actually ends up being quite balance. Despite having two Transwomen Vs Davies the piece on the Nine was fairly balanced too.

Sports seems to be a bit of a tipping point that is really getting people talking and thinking about the issue which is good.

Many high performing male athletes have less testosterone than female athletes. Lowest testosterone men same as lowest testosterone women

Has mckinnon not realised that statement destroys their own argument

Going to be on Scotland Tonight too at 2240 (too late for me).

Angela Haggarty and Susan Smith (Forwomen.Scot)

Thanks for this OP, not in Scotland so good to know the coverage there can be balanced and that Sharron was there and was heard. 👍🏻