Statement on transgender prisoners Centre for Crime and Justice Studies

[NeurotrashWarrior]

Call for opinions please on Transgender prisoners:

www.crimeandjustice.org.uk/news/statement-transgender-prisoners?fbclid=IwAR2NFo7jK-HOBYjdqLKVqDpqoNHiXjm_IkhIwTNR64lszDBPrN2c871TaQg

Hopefully there will be focus will be on vulnerable female offenders.

I have replied to them.
It is logical that female prisons remain for biological females.
"trans women" remain biologically male for life.
Even if castrated. Female prisoners have a right to privacy from men, just as any other female. It is not for debate.
Society has got to stop appeasing this madness>
These men had freewill to dress as women, and to ID as women. NO one forced them. If they commit crimes they know the consequence... Prison.

The prison service protect men from harm, they have "safer custody" facilities, mainly to protect Sex offenders from general population - they protect gay men, and anyone under threat.

There is NO need for any male to be in a female prison estate. I have extensive experience of this matter - and will do all i can to ensure common sense prevails. Many of these men are sex offenders, and have autogynephilia - a disorder, and will play the victim to get softer prison time.

The aside is we lock up far too many women who pose no danger to society and need to look for alternative punishments for non-violent offenders.

Totally agree, and I believe they are looking at stopping sentences of less than 6 months AND using community sentences instead.
lets hope that reduces women prisoners, - and in this case I do hope common sense will prevail, NO female prisoner needs to have men in their facility . Even if castrated and calling himself Mary

MoJ Female Offender Strategy was released last year. It acknowledges what has been long known that male and female offender profiles are very different.
Its impossible to reconcile housing males with vulnerable female prisoners whilst recognising the women's needs.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/female-offender-strategy

indeed, first priority for female prisoners MUST be safety from any threats from males.
That overrides any delusional belief that men can claim to be female. Males are protected in male prisons, even if castrated and on female hormones - such offenders are kept of safer custody units .

I really can't fathom how it was allowed to happen but I've read the transcripts of the case that set precedent. The impact on female prisoners was never considered.
Its a massive Safeguarding and Duty of Care failling by the state.
That so many female prisoners have experienced abuse, assault and coercive control by males and their safety, dignity and privacy is compromised is appalling.

Nearly 65% of prisoners at women's jail 'show signs of brain injury'
Call for screening as women tell study their injuries were caused by domestic violence

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/feb/06/nearly-65-of-prisoners-at-womens-jail-show-signs-of-brain-injury

Indeed, sadly the trans community has been pushing this madness - funded by leftie liberal like George Soros. The craze has affected so many elements of society .
Thankfully society, and especially women, have woken up and started to stand up against this madness

Its been going on for a long time.
This thread is eye-opening:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3463920-Lets-go-back-to-2007

Francis Crook executive director of the Howard League for Penal Reform "said that she was worried that ‘some men with a history of extreme violence and sexual violence against women have found a new way of exercising aggression towards women’.

‘These men are not transitioning because they like women and want to be a woman, but in order to exert a new kind of control and dominance over women, a sort of infiltration."

source:
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5798945/Trans-women-convicted-men-attack-vulnerable-inmates.html

Claude Knights (safeguarding expert, retired after 15 years as head of Kidscape)
on sex offenders who transition and are afforded the opportunity to change their name and hide their history as a consequence & recent case of "Christopher Noble, 32, transitioned to Christyl Knight while behind bars for keeping a stash of over 4,000 vile pictures and videos of kids as young as six months old"

“Allowing these individuals to hide a secret past is a dangerous practice.”
“Anyone who’s fuelled the vile trade in indecent images of children and therefore contributed to their sexual abuse should not be allowed to change their name.”

www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/3006679/paedophile-jailed-transgender-christyl-knight-christopher-nobile/

Successful appeal of pre-operative transgender woman without GRC transfer to Women's Estate, this overturned the Home Office's previous refusal. (2009)

No apparent dicussion or assessment of impact on female prisoners except the following evidence from an expert in gender dysphoria, Dr James Barrett of the Gender Identity Clinic, Charing Cross Hospital, who had also known the Claimant for many years, explained why living in role in female accommodation was required:

"it will become clear that she is so widely accepted as female in that unit that location in the main prison will follow. I think that such acceptance will pretty generally apply in the main prison, also, although there will probably always be a small number of prisoners who will choose to make an issue of the matter because they are the sort of women who enjoy conflict. If this patient is able to cope with protracted close proximity women of that sort I would judge her able to cope with the less prolonged, more avoidable, travails of the civilian world."

www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/format.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2009/2220.html

2015 Dr. James Barrett , President of the British Association of Gender Identity Specialists evidence to Maria Miller MP & the Women & Equalities Transgender Equality Inquiry:
"...the ever-increasing tide of referrals of patients in prison serving long or indeterminate sentences for serious sexual offences. These vastly outnumber the number of prisoners incarcerated for more ordinary, non-sexual, offences. It has been rather naïvely suggested that nobody would seek to pretend transsexual status in prison if this were not actually the case. There are, to those of us who actually interview the prisoners, in fact very many reasons why people might pretend this. These vary from the opportunity to have trips out of prison through to a desire for a transfer to the female estate (to the same prison as a co-defendant) through to the idea that a parole board will perceive somebody who is female as being less dangerous through to a [false] belief that hormone treatment will actually render one less dangerous through to wanting a special or protected status within the prison system"

data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/women-and-equalities-committee/transgender-equality/written/19532.pdf

James Barrett was one of the clinicians who complained about Helen Webberley to the GMC. And the Care Quality Commission.

reddit thread

Female prisoners have a right to privacy from men, just as any other female.

This^ is important. No transwoman should be housed in the female state whether they are assessed as a risk or not.

Reading with interest to respond to the link as it's not an area I know much about, though I do know women should never be housed with or near men.

re James Barrett

extended important article by Hacsi Horváth
'The Theatre of the Body: A detransitioned epidemiologist examines suicidality, affirmation, and transgender identity'
(extract)
"I am an adjunct Lecturer in the Department of Epidemiology and Biostatistics at the University of California, San Francisco (UCSF). I’m an expert in clinical epidemiology, particularly in systematic review methods, epidemiologic bias and evidence quality assessment. As a researcher at UCSF, I managed the Cochrane HIV/AIDS Group for over a decade and on several occasions served as a consultant to the World Health Organization (WHO) in their HIV guideline development processes.

For about 13 years, I also masqueraded “as a woman,” taking medical measures which suggest, shall we say, that I was completely committed to that lifestyle. Most men would have recoiled from this, but in my estrogen-drug-soaked stupor it seemed like a good idea. In 2013 I stopped taking estrogen for health reasons and very rapidly came back to my senses. I ceased all effort to convey the impression that I was a woman and carried on with life." (continues)

"I don’t believe GD [gender dysphoria] reflects any kind of problem or glitch in the human body. Here’s what I suggest, in broad strokes, is going on with adolescents and adults:

Heterosexual males (the vast majority of men with GD) have autogynephilia.
Homosexual males with GD enjoy “femininity” and mistakenly believe this means they are “trans” or even women.
Females with GD have internalized misogyny and/or internalized homophobia.
In my opinion—which is based upon extensive research, as well as my own 13-year-long experience in pretending to be a woman–GD is only superficially concerned with one’s sex. It’s more a disturbance of identity, of mistaking the signifier for the signified. Patients have whatever mental illnesses they may have, or that develop while in the ruminations and hypomanic states that typically precede “coming out as trans.” I propose that GD is a moody, brooding syndrome that accompanies these mental illnesses. People with GD have cultivated an idealized vision of themselves as the opposite sex" (continues)

I agree with the late French psychoanalyst Colette Chiland when she said: “Transsexuals stage everything in the theatre of the body, and nothing in that of the psyche” (Chiland 2003). It is true that persons in the driven, obsessed stages of gender dysphoria can seemingly think of nothing except transition. No-one dreams of asking them to slow down, to seek psychotherapy, perhaps even find a way through this work to prevent transition, which can be costly on so many levels. It would be like standing in the way of a bolting, bucking horse. The fact that people with gender dysphoria are like this is a sign that something is wrong, yet they are not impeded at all.

But doctors are doctors and patients are patients. These surgeries and lifelong hormonal drug regimens didn’t used to be given out like crackerjack prizes. Virtually no research has been done in psychotherapeutic methods to alleviate the symptoms of gender dysphoria, prevent it, or get rid of it altogether. The entire literature comprises a couple of dozen case reports and small case series, some promising, nearly all from before 1990, and all using archaic methods. Based primarily on the pronouncement of Harry Benjamin, the “godfather” of transsexualism, that psychotherapy with these patients was a waste of time, the medical profession increasingly found ways to justify surgical and hormonal transition as the standard of care (Billings 1982) . I will get back to this near the end of the article." (continues)
4thwavenow.com/2018/12/19/the-theatre-of-the-body-a-detransitioned-epidemiologist-examines-suicidality-affirmation-and-transgender-identity/

Weren't women's rights disregarded from the start when the male doctors required males who wanted to change their sex 'live in role' for two years?

The doctors such as James Barrett who may be seen as 'gatekeeping' surgical and medical interventions for their patients effectively granted some men permission and requirement to access female spaces, including dangerous violent male offenders access to the female prison estate

It is not a question of what the offender "wants" or is working towards. Biological sex change is IMPOSSIBLE.
Trans community call it "sex change" - for a biological male it is castration, and cosmetic surgery to give appearance of a stereo type of a female. These men become castrated males, eunuchs, sadly society is being forced to accept these people as women in every sense.
No No No.
They are free to dress as women, even ID as women, and call themselves by a female name. BUT they should respect womens rights to privacy.

I am intersex, and have lived as both "genders/sexes" From age 9 - 19 to lived as female after diagnosis.

now at age 53, i live as male, I DO not use female changing facilities as my face and my appearance is MALE, i would not wish to shock or offend any one.
I do not use MALE changing facilities as my naked body is too female, and i do not wish to shock, or attract attention.
I have adapted, i do not use swimming pools or gyms as such,... that is my situation - SADLY trans women ignore those same issues and just expect special treatment, IGNORING womens rights,

Yes i have even been to prison, and it caused utter madness. I did not tell anyone when admitted to prison (for fraud 9 years ago) - i was in a cat C male prison, BUT as soon as there they realised, as my NHS info. states F ( for all the female issues I have) - so was offered female prison.... I LOOK totally male- it would shock women etc. So i remained in male prison, BUT caused panic, as I menstruated (at the time) and tampons ere not on their list of supplies. BUT they coped, I coped, the prison has "SAFER CUSTODY OFFICERS" and they sorted facility where i had private shower, (many cat C prisons have Showers in each cell / room) - so there was no issue, and eventually at a CAT D prison, (open prison) they coped fine, - MY point is that Trans women would be fine in Male prisons (i have cut long story short)

Women do not need to be exposed to biological males in prison, EVEN if they have been mutilated & full of estrogen. Society is free to allow these men to live as women in everyday society ... BUT trans women MUST adapt to their life and respect womens privacy - I adapted - they can ! I had NO choice - they do.....

My gosh Sam. Excellent points; it's a testament to your self awareness and empathy that you could see that you might intimidate women in a prison and highlights the narcissism or predatory behaviour of TW who seek to access women's prisons.

Are you able to pretty much write the text in that post to them?

There was a recent article which assessed how transmen were regarded in female estate prisons. Regardless of how masculine they presented, they were accepted without reported issues by prisoners including those who were female and transgender

This was in stark contrast to the issues raised by male prisoners who identify transgender in relation to both staff and fellow prisoners in male estate.

I lost the link to it but will try to find it.

There are massive differences between the sexes, the situation in prisons illustrates many of the more profound.

that is why this whole issue gets me so angry -
I used to have sympathy with trans women, knowing the hassle of having to live as both at times.
Sadly it has gone too far, they demand access to female private spaces etc... there has to be a line drawn.
Yes i have to attend womens clinics, have a cervical smear etc... and have had some surreal moments. Yes as a teen I used female facilities, as i looked 100% female, and attended a Public School as female, and was in female "house" etc.. and legally my documents were all set up as female, i was female when my NI number was issued, MY nhs number and record states F... my driving test was taken as a female, so that caused issues, all my qualifications taken as female. SO yes i understand, and I accept i do not look female now, (synthetic testosterone for 10 yrs from age 19 - 29)
ANYONE would respect the fact that women do not expect to see me in a female changing facility - ( and I do not want the attention)

Trans women MUST accept the same limitations if they expect to be accepted in society, they can not just demand tolerance - THEY are male by biology, and will be a male in all respects - even if castrated.

it is surely common sense, i have not done anything noble. I would have loved to have had a normal healthy body of either sex.. but i did not.. and NONE OF US ARE BORN IN WRONG BODY, we all adapt to our own biology. Women go thru so many changes and adapt...
Child > teen with periods & puberty > pregnancy > menopause
NO one was ready for it, we ALL adapt, my journey and stages have just been "different" to the norm, BUT "norm" for me.

Thanks for posting your experience, Sam.

Could you give that feedback to the Centre for Crime and Justice Studies? They are asking for everyone's views about transgender prisoners.

feedback form here

You could just copy and paste what you put on here and it would only take a couple of minutes.

You don't have to give your name or email address.

i have done, as it makes me so angry - sorry for RANT, and if my confession has shocked anyone reading it

sam thanks for sharing your experiences and for being aware of the feelings of other people. Your experiences are highly relevant and I’m glad you are sharing with the relevant bodies

Sam2112
Many of us share your anger, we may have arrived at that point through different experiences and perspectives, thank you for sharing yours. Its really important insight, no need to ever apologise.