The Police and cross-sex searching

[ChickenMe]

I have an interest in how Self ID and GRCs would/do affect female prisoners, not just in prisons but in the court system and in police custody where I think they may be over looked.

Have been reading PACE. Extremely boring.

Currently in-custody and strip searches must be same sex. A GRC holder can search a prisoner of the same sex as the holder's certificate

We all know a GRC does not equal genital surgery

So in theory a police officer with a penis could perform an intimate search on a vagina. (Needs an Inspector's authority as it's usually done by a medical person).

How is that ethical? Surely there are safeguarding issues?

mobile.twitter.com/JeanHatchet/status/1006991421197430785

Lily Madigan raised this issue in a furious tweet against a gay nightclub. They have a female and a male bouncer search everyone on entry. They make an instant decision by eyeballing the person and instantly without having to discuss or consult, search the member of their own biological sex.

Lily was searched by the man.

Lily was absolutely outraged! Screamed that it was totally out of order for woman to be searched by someone with a penis.

(OTOH Lily was outraged when a woman refused to be medically examined by a person with a penis. But I digress.)

I don't know how the police and prison authorities are going to sort this out and still retain their PC credentials.

The old 'case by case' would be pulled out I guess. Ready for a can of worms opening.

Genuinely curious how easy it is to get a GRC without genital replacement. Until recently I assumed the full surgery was required.

Further complicated by situations like this:

www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/05/23/britain-has-its-first-reported-genderfluid-police-officer/

Current process for GRC application here:
www.gov.uk/apply-gender-recognition-certificate

Really? That Twitter thread is some of the most half baked nonsense I've ever seen.

Strip searches aren't at all common (I've done about 5/6 my entire career) and trust me no one wants to conduct them. The idea that a police officer is going to ID as female to look at a junkies vagina is about as far fetched as we can stretch this

I don't think anyone is saying that a PC is going to ID as a female for that reason - more that it creates an issue that I don't think was thought about when the legislation was written.

A detained person born male and with a GRC denoting female "should" be searched by female officers says PACE, regardless of tackle remaining

Strip searches must be fairly common in metropolitan areas?

The point is whether women can be assured they will be searched by someone of the same biological sex. Or if not whether they can say no. This will also apply to other situations e.g. Security pat down at airport, asking for female doctor for intimate procedures. This matters an awful lot to some women. Original GRA assumed a tiny tiny minority of transexuals and post-op as the norm. Now the NHS are saying 3 in 100 are likely to question their gender, you have gender fluid police officers, no clear reason all this is linked to biology. I want reassurance from the government that sex-based exemptions are workable for women in practice.

I wonder how a trans man would feel about being thoroughly searched by male officers - if said trans man had a vagina and a GRC (not sure if there are many out there).
Also, how would male officers feel about searching a female-bodied person, awkward I would think.

The point is whether women can be assured they will be searched by someone of the same biological sex.

It matters on both sides - hence Mighty Almighty. A female officer could be compelled to search a male on an airport security line etc.

If you don't think there's men that would totally use id to do this, then you clearly haven't met the same men I have.

Hadn’t heard that one southfields well done that nightclub! I think the female bouncer would have a claim if her employer tried to make her search a male bodied person.

www.pinknews.co.uk/2012/07/23/new-search-rules-for-trans-police-officers-and-suspects-drawn-up/
Quite a long complicated article. Looks like GRC means officer is treated as sex on certificate. My problem is the way every organisation seems to have its own LBGT advisory group but no women's
Speaking exclusively to PinkNews.co.uk, Ms Morgan told us: “In response to requests from forces for guidance on trans staff searching detainees, ACPO sent a letter to all forces clarifying best practice on this issue. This letter sent in May 2012 demonstrates our commitment to dealing sensitively with transgender issues when they arise. Nationally ACPO has been working with the National Trans Police Association on trans issues and will continue to do so