Men that covet womanhood

[OrderOnline]

I note there are the group that are jealous of the clothes, hair and make-up, the group jealous of the female emotional support and the group jealous of our biology.

What can we do to help these people, so they stop harming women? Freudian psychology is failing them and society, what can we do about improving mental health treatment of men?

We do we (assuming you mean us, as women) need to do anything to improve men’s mental health? I think this approach is part of women’s social conditioning to be nice. Men’s mental health issues are not women’s problems to solve.

I understand that. I simply want to stop being hurt by this group and the failing in their MH support. This problem needs to be pushed by onto MH.

Pushed back onto MH

Freudian therapy is a failure in many cases. What can be done to help MH treatment be less misogynistic?

There is much emphasis on society breaking down gender roles. What is being done in MH?

I think addressing the root causes of this in any given individual is the preserve of psychiatric therapy or the support of close partners or family if they're willing to. I don't think there's anything that can be done in a general women can do to stop men from developing this fetish. Except perhaps in the case of mothers who adversely affect their son's development which evidently isn't you or most women. (Just to explain but one of the autogynephiles I knew definitely had mother issues and I've heard it's a correlation).

However, at a societal level I believe there are two things that can be done. One is to consistently keep pushing awareness that gender dysphoria and autogynephillia are different things and that the latter exploit the former for victim status. This is common knowledge for us but awareness is still lacking in the general public. Whilst this may appear to not be answering the question I believe removing the societal approval / acceptance of it does indirectly help men not acquire it. It needs to be de-mainstreamed.

(I'd like to clarify that by societal acceptance I don't actually think that most people do accept it but that the media and state do)

The second thing is much trickier and that is the porn that helps encourage this. I don't believe there is much that can be done about that and some legal moves that have been promoted wont help, either. Though parents can try to discourage their children from getting into hardcore porn by talking to them. I think a lot of autogynephillia grows from here. It is more viable to prevent it than to treat it.

I guess the final thing I'd say women could do is to simply not tolerate it. I've known women who found their partners were autogynephiles and who tried to be accepting and ended up in very soul-destroying relationships. It's not my place to say whether or not someone should stay or leave in a relationship but it's my opinion that partners should try to avoid enabling men who start to do this. They shouldn't allow "but this who I am" or "you should support my needs" to override their common sense.

Isn't this what Miranda Yardley's take is? It's up to men and masculinity to be more inclusive of men who wish to express themselves in "non-stereotypically-masculine" ways rather than men who want to do this being told they are women, or suffering from a mental disorder. Men who actually want to be/become women through surgery aren't the same?

The mother stuff may not be about mother at all and about transferring onto mother, then women. Until you break misogyny in MH, there is little hope for some individuals hurting women -because they covet woman- and their MH issues, be they a cluster B personality disorder or for someone with depression who is miserable in themselves.

"It's up to men and masculinity to be more inclusive of men who wish to express themselves in "non-stereotypically-masculine" ways rather than men who want to do this being told they are women, or suffering from a mental disorder"

I'm moderately well-read on the subject but not a clinician, so this is my opinion. I don't think autogynephillia is about gender non-conformity (girls who want to be mechanics, boys who want to play with Barbie). It's clearly not a sexual fetish at that age. And by the by, I don't think gender non-conformity means gender dysphoria though it obviously can do.

Gender Dysphoria tends to manifest fairly early in life. Autogynephillia - i.e. actual gratification from imagining oneself as a woman - tends to manifest later in life. Whilst it's possible that there's a correlation between gender non-conforming boys and this fetish, I actually doubt it is significant. Autogynephillia is a sexual fetish of straight men (there's a related category of men who want to be women in order to attract men but that's not autogynephillia) and I think like one of the drivers is the projection of being a sexualised fantasy of a woman. That's why they are typically hyper-slutty and exaggerated caricatures of women.

I don't think it can really be on men to be more tolerant of gender non-conforming behaviour. I mean we can and that heads off some bullying. I just don't think that is anything more than tangentially related to autogynephillia. The autogynephile isn't playing with Barbies or upset because they can't be a stereotypically female job. They're dressing up in a micro dress and saying they want to be fucked. I'm not really sure more tolerance is what will help with that. I'm more thinking less.

The mother stuff may not be about mother at all and about transferring onto mother, then women

Specifically the autogynephile I'm thinking of had big issues with their mother who was an overwhelmingly dominant figure in his life. I don't know if that's a direct factor or if it's simply indirect in contributing to his general mental state, I'm just mentioning because I've heard others mention the correlation anecdotally. The other autogynephile I've known I never discussed his mother with him so can't comment.

Anyway, these are just my non-medical opinions. Take them for what they're worth if you want to.

Very interesting, thanks. It puts into perspective how legislation and improvement in transrights can conflict with protection of women's spaces and just how wide the transumbrella is.

Being transgender isn't considered a mental disorder by the DSM, NHS, Royal College of Psychiatrists etc etc.

Gender dysphoria IS a mental disorder which is the distress caused by being transgender- which is usually alleviated by making moves to live in the gender you identify with.

Transgenderism and autogynephelia are seperate issues. And currently, the majority of society aren't seeing the difference. That's the problem and so it's not a case of individuals being failed by MH services, it's the lack of understanding that it isn't seen as a MH issue.

What's with all the transwomen setting up paypal accounts? Because it is mostly transwomen I think? Are they trying to fund GRS or is it just a lifelong course of hormones?

I don't know anything about their process and hope they find happiness, although I fail to understand why they can't fully embrace transgenderism without it having to be entering womanhood. They will never be women so why not be happy for who they are? I believe that society must protect and respect them for who they are, but until we reach some time in a distant Blade Runner-style future where it might be possible to literally transform someone's entire biology, I think it's pretty deluded to be sharing articles about transwomen 'lactating' and such...

We need to fight back. We cannot escape abusive males and so therefore we need to fight back against abusive males.
This is what history teaches us.