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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Socialist Feminist Network policy statement on gender ID.

39 replies

IrkThePurist · 18/12/2017 22:21

Not sure if this has been shared already; its more readable than the title suggests.

www.socfem.net/faq

OP posts:
guardianfree · 18/12/2017 22:30

Fantastic - stands on chair and applauds Socialist Feminist Network!!

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 18/12/2017 22:41

That's really good!

AdultHumanFemale · 18/12/2017 22:55

Eeek! That's really, really good!

RunRabbitRunRabbit · 18/12/2017 23:06

Never did I think the day would come when I would find myself agreeing with the socialist feminists and shaking my head at the liberal right-on feminists. But here I am doing just that.

laudanum · 18/12/2017 23:07

🤮

Backingvocals · 18/12/2017 23:08

Thank bloody god. I feared another handmaidens charter. What are the chances Corbyn and his cronies will show any interest in reading this and considering the argument ? Rhetorical question cos we know the answer.

Agerbilatemycardigan · 19/12/2017 06:30

Wow. Brilliantly and articulately expressed piece. Thanks for posting that OP, it's a glimmer of hope amongst all of the GRA insanity.

whitehandledkitchenknife · 19/12/2017 07:10

Superb.

IfYouDontImagineNothingHappens · 19/12/2017 07:27

ShockShock yes yes indeed

FurryGiraffe · 19/12/2017 07:35

*‘Queer theorists see the intimate connection between biological sex and oppression and react by trying to dismantle the notion of biological sex whilst socialists and feminists react by seeking to dismantle oppression’
*
This. This, with bloody festive bells on. *
*

SparklyUnicornTractors · 19/12/2017 07:41

Bloody brilliant!

Datun · 19/12/2017 08:03

Women in the American military are briefed that attempting to cover in the presence of a self- identifying transgender woman whilst in the shower is disrespectful to the transgender woman!

Bloody hell. This is where it leads.

The totally fucked up logic of deciding men can be women.

All the far-flung, bonkers possibilities that this gives rise to, and that feminists worry about and get told they are being hysterical, are actually happening.

They are being forced to get undressed in front of men?

Singerleon · 19/12/2017 08:10

Fantastic, have bookmarked so I can send to others. Thanks OP

WaxyBean · 19/12/2017 08:13

Amen!

Puresummer · 19/12/2017 08:15

Which socialists does this represent in reality? Because this just seems to be a website set up in August specifically in response to changes in the GRA, with every post it makes being about transpeople, as opposed to a genuine socialist women's group.

This isn't a socialist group wising up to the proposed changes to the GRA - it's an anti-GRA changes website that just so happens to have co-opted the name "socialist feminism". I don't see a single other thing on the website that has anything to do with socialism at all.

So of course Corbyn won't listen to them - they're just another group representing the same arguments. Just calling yourself a socialist group doesn't, it turns out, actually make you a socialist group.

socialistreview.org.uk/424/teachers-victory-trans-rights
socialistworker.co.uk/art/41703/Trans+peoples+fight+needs+solidarity+not+exclusion
www.swp.org.uk/about-us

They're just a small example of socialist groups. Note: I am not a socialist. However, don't see this as "socialists wising up" because it just isn't true. It's someone co-opting the word "socialist" to pretend that socialists are somehow on the anti-changes-to-the-GRA side, when in reality it just isn't true.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 19/12/2017 08:22

Wonderful! I hope that they develop an agenda that extends beyond the trans fight to include some real proactive campaigns.

hackmum · 19/12/2017 08:27

Puresummer: You're right about it being set up to fight a single issue. I think, however, all the women in the group would call themselves socialists - it's specifically for women on the left/in the Labour movement who want to campaign on the GRA amendments.

LangCleg · 19/12/2017 08:42

Which socialists does this represent in reality?

Feminist socialists in the Labour Party who oppose proposed changes to the GRA and are being prevented from organising by other women's structures in the Labour Party.

You're right about it being a single issue organisation currently but that's why it is. Its convenor is Ruth Serwotka. You may have heard of her.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 19/12/2017 08:51

I had rather hoped it might bring back some of the ideology of socialist feminism in its second-wave form. It didn't occur to me that it was connected with the Labour Party.

Puresummer · 19/12/2017 09:27

@LangCleg: nope. All I can find out about her is that she's an NUT officer and that she's married to a former union leader. I had never heard of her before this.

She seems to run completely contrary to the NUT position on this.

Most of the things I found on google were related to her husband.

Where did you find the information that Ruth Serwotka was behind this website? It doesn't mention it on the site as far as I can see, beyond the fact that it reposted one of the things she posted on Facebook?

Puresummer · 19/12/2017 09:28

Sorry, married to a CURRENT big union leader, not former.

Puresummer · 19/12/2017 09:31

Oh wait, it's on her twitter. She is indeed involved with this website. Apologies.

I'd never heard of her though - and google doesn't really return much about her either. I guess because she's an NUT representative?

MaidOfStars · 19/12/2017 09:43

@Datun

That was the single statement that stayed with me too. And you seem like the kind of person to have already checked its veracity....Grin Is it true?

MaidOfStars · 19/12/2017 09:50

I actually can’t directly link the statement to American military policy. It was said as part of a commentary on the new guidelines by some Catholic spokesperson.

Datun · 19/12/2017 09:51

MaidOfStars

Yes, I had a look. Apparently there is a series of slides which constitute guidelines. Odd choice of wording though. The women have to remain ‘mute’ if a TIM enters their shower.

The chap who was hired by Trump to deal with trans stuff seems to be behind highlighting it.

But he sounds sexist. So I got as far as drilling down, then came up against someone I disagreed with.

That’s as far as I’ve got!