Is there a women's rights group that is anti-gender?

[HairyLittleCarrot]

Or does somebody brave and clever and articulate and charismatic need to found one?

(I'm looking at you lot)

Fawcett is out. WEP is out. I want to be part of an organisation that GETS IT. I'm hanging on to the belief that there's still hope.

Is there still hope?

I would certainly join one.

Uep me 2 - crap at writting anything. - good at speaking x

Well, it used to be called feminism, but...

Something like that would be gender-critical rather than anti-gender wouldn't it? The founders would have to have the skin of a rhino to withstand all the flak...I'd potentially be up for getting on board with a gender critical pressure group, as I don't live in the UK, so I'd be more stealth

I did join WEP right at the get-go, but it was on the understanding that they would be campaigning for rights of born women, so that's been a disappointment hasn't it?

You'd (the generic you) have to pitch it right so it doesn't come across as the female equivalent of the Justice for Men and Boys party, whining about the wrongs what have been done. Would the main thrust of it be to function as a campaigning pressure group, highlighting the dangers posed to women by changes in the law regarding gender? What would be other aims?

Would the main thrust of it be to function as a campaigning pressure group, highlighting the dangers posed to women by changes in the law regarding gender?

Yes. Something to counter the narrative every time a news piece on gender pops up. Something to get the general public beginning to understand that gender isn't what it's cracked up to be. To wake people up to gender being a damaging thing that shouldn't be protected.

Something that in dialogue unfailingly pairs the word "gender" with words like "role" or "stereotype" or "performance" or "restrictions" or "conforming" until the penny drops.

Like MN did with "the-rapist-Ched-Evans"

I dunno. You can see why I'm not volunteering. The words they garbled come wrong out

I'm up for this. I looked in my are recently for a local feminist group to join. My heart sank when the first five posts on the Facebook page of the only one in my city were about transwomen.

There's a new gender critical radical feminist group called Womens Liberation Front that looks to focus mainly on transgender issues. They are women-only and were the women who held the conference in Portland, Oregon written about in that big New Yorker article on trans vs. radical feminists.

womensliberationfront.org/document-statement-of-principles/

A women's rights group which is anti-gender wouldn't be able to call it's self a women's rights group.....

A women's rights group which is anti-gender wouldn't be able to call it's self a women's rights group.....

Why not?

Didn't the consensus used to be that sex was biological and gender was socially constructed?

I miss that.

Things just seem to be getting worse gender stereotype wise. I worry that little girls who like building blocks and little boys who like dolls will be made to feel like they are wrong somehow.

(I'm pregnant with a boy and I'm going to go out and buy a tonne of flowery Muslins tomorrow as the world's tiniest protest!)

A women's rights group which is anti-gender wouldn't be able to call it's self a women's rights group.....

Interesting POV. Please would you explain why you think this?

I would be willing to join and support one but due to being a civil servant I have to be very careful about supporting political causes, so would not be able to start one.

Really, going out and buying a tonne of flowery muslins because you are having a boy is as bad as doing it because you are having a girl IMO.

Why not just buy the muslins you like? A baby really doesn't care, as long as they're soft.

I despair, I really do.

If gender is socially constructed, maybe lets not bother with womens only groups. Or mens only groups. And have groups for people who are anti-gender. Just a thought.

lynette I don't understand your post.

We are anti gender - we are against socially constructed stereotypes of masculine and feminine behaviour.

We recognise that being male or female are biological realities and women in particular need spaces and services segregated on the basis of sex not gender

That Women's Liberation Front page is excellent - biological women who survived girlhood - though I would add continue to survive as a born woman.

That would be amazing, so fed up with this constant need to make women's rights include everyone.

It's fucking depressing to think that half the population is oppressed purely for having female bodies, even more so when there are so called feminists unwilling to acknowledge the importance of our biology in this oppression.

If gender is socially constructed, maybe lets not bother with womens only groups. Or mens only groups. And have groups for people who are anti-gender. Just a thought.

Apologies, I still don't understand your point

That's exactly why I'm doing it lynette, I'm going to buy the flowery muslins because I like the lovely patterns. For some weird reason I dithered over buying them last time I went shopping, ingrained sexism I guess?

Huh? WTF have flowery Muslims got to do with this?

Well, if you like the flowery muslins, Stella go ahead!

Um, yes. Flowery muslins obviously!

Flowery muslins have everything to do with this, flowers are a girl thing innit, so she can't be expecting a boy.

Ah, I see what you're doing there Lynette. You're conflating sex with gender.

Man/woman, male/female describe sex.

Masculine/feminine describe gender and are collectively bollocks.

Gender Apostates are really good on this. They are a group of people, some TW some women who write about being gender critical in a world where gender is being enforced ever more rigorously.

My autocorrect spells Muslims too :) The point I was trying to make (clumsily and a bit deraily) was that there seems to be a lot more emphasis these days on gender in the sense of gender stereotypes and men/boys or women/girls liking/needing certain things because of their gender rather than just as individuals who like whatever it is they happen to like.

So yes, I would support a protest group pushing for there to be less emphasis on gender. I don't really know much about trans issues but my background is education so that's why I started talking about building blocks etc. I was thinking of gender in a harmful stereotype/ equality of opportunity way.