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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Miss World 2013 WTF? They have to parade in bikinis......

45 replies

whodunnit · 29/09/2013 01:50

I am shocked. I googled miss worlda s it was on the BBC news site that Miss Philipines had won. And I was confronted with a shot of all the entrants lined up in bikinis. In this day and age? Shocking htat we have not moved on from this by now. I am sure that if I read into it, there would be lots of spiel about education and ambition and charity but making them parade in bikinis is just so degrading.

I had not realised that such events had not evolved with the times.

OP posts:

mathanxiety · 29/09/2013 01:57

Otoh, fundamentalist Muslims forced the event to be moved from mainly Muslim Jakarta to mainly Hindu Bali because they took such serious umbrage at the bikini parading element the organisers worried about violence.

grimbletart · 29/09/2013 12:45

I find it one of life's little ironies that feminists and fundamental misogynistic Muslims both condemn Miss World

SocksinBoots · 29/09/2013 13:48

How could this event evolve though? It's fundamentally misogynistic.

I remember watching when I was young and all the contestants had to give a little interview where they would claim that they were kind to animals and nurturing towards children. Just to make sure we knew it wasn't purely a beauty contest

I can't believe it's still going.

mathanxiety · 29/09/2013 15:24

Ironically, Miss Universe got its start when a Miss America winner refused to pose in a swimsuit made by Catalina swimwear company. Catalina took their Miss America sponsorship money and went elsewhere, founding the Miss Universe competition.

Miss America (the forerunner of Miss Universe) started as a gimmick to get crowds to visit Atlantic City in early autumn instead of shuttering all the attractions there once summer was officially over (end of September in the US). Basically it operated on the same principle as auto shows -- drape a young woman over a car to boost interest and sales. Miss World, held in Britain, was conceived as a way to promote bikini sales, but (irony again) bikinis were not as acceptable to audience or contestants as the organisers hoped they would be.

All beauty contests are heavily sponsored events. As TV audiences wane, they will fade away.

TeiTetua · 29/09/2013 19:05

Complaining that contestants in the Miss World show have to wear bikinis is about as productive as complaining that the Vatican is run entirely by Catholics. We could say that both operations should be shut down, but there's not much mystery in how they run.

Queenie73 · 29/09/2013 19:21

I'm very mildly shocked that Miss World is still being held and that women are still parading themselves and waiting to be picked as the best. I am a farmer and the only difference I can see between this and livestock shows is that the owner of the winning beast doesn't also get a rosette. I haven't seen it in years, but I did always half expect the judges to cop a feel of the contestants' breasts and try to wobble her teeth to make sure she was "correct".
The binki part doesn't shock me at all. After all, if they cancelled the swimwear secttion, I wouldn't be saying it was fine now that all the nasty misogynist bits had been taken out.

mathanxiety · 29/09/2013 22:18

All the beauty pageants started as bikini or swimsuit exhibitions. They 'evolved' into more 'all round' spectacles involving evening wear, talent segment and .

Original poster

whodunnit · 29/09/2013 22:58

Ok so the event needs to evolve... what would it look like to satisfy us?

I am guessing it would not involve looks, or overambition and doing it all as that way madness lies (translate having it all for doing it all) so it would have to be female people who had done something amazing and had not trodden on anyone on the way and had helped others up the ladder with them.

So who would we nominate? probably someone on the swiss particle accelerator project. Who else is up there these days, doing amazing things but largely unknown?

I am a newcomer to this bit of MN so please be kind if this has been done before.

OP posts:

YouMakeMeWannaLaLa · 30/09/2013 00:18

Why aren't MRAs getting pissed off that they can't enter Miss. World?

mathanxiety · 30/09/2013 01:28

To satisfy me, it would come to a screeching halt. It is ridiculous. The concept of a panel of judges judging women for anything is what is odious about it, not just the individual elements of the phenomenon.

Sinful1 · 30/09/2013 20:49

To be fair, to win Mr universe the men have to parade around in a very skimpy Speedo :o

And get oiled up to better show off those features under the lights, at least the ladies don't have to go that far....

mathanxiety · 01/10/2013 05:52

They are all very slathered up with lotion, fake tan, etc.

queenjellybelly · 01/10/2013 06:51

Total cods wallop!!! They DON'T have to parade in bikinis. In fact, as I recall, they don't even have to enter at all!

Beachcomber · 01/10/2013 09:02

It's just a ponced up wet T-shirt competition.

specialsubject · 01/10/2013 10:35

nobody is forced to enter, and I think that even in the most deprived places there are other ways out.

they are not MADE to parade in bikinis. They volunteer to do so by entering.

queenjellybelly · 01/10/2013 17:42

Got to admit, I did it 20 years ago. Got pretty far & had a blast. Loads of travel & free stuff. Have to ask who is exploiting who? Surely it is just as restrictive for women to be told it is degrading to parade in a bikini as it is to be told that they have to show some skin. What is offensive to me is having the freedom of choice removed and the assumption that these women are unable to form their own opinions. When I was in Miss UK we had the choice of wearing bikinis, one piece swimsuits and sarongs. We certainly had the choice to remain covered up should we wish although everybody was happy to wear swimwear. We were all pretty confident with our bodies otherwise we would never have entered in the first place. I get really hacked off when people speak about beauty contests are being degrading to women. The women entering these contests are not just a bunch of brainless bimbos unable to make their own decisions. Most are well educated, intelligent, strong women with their own reasons for entering.

FloraFox · 01/10/2013 19:01

Events like Miss World contribute to a societal view that women are a class of decorative sex objects to be paraded and judged based on how successfully they conform to society's standards of beauty for women, often merely for the looks / body they were born with rather than for any actual achievement. This isn't about the decisions of the individual women who participate in the event but about the event itself and its presentation in the general media as fun / harmless / glamorous. Girls watching it get the message that they should aspire to be judged like a piece of cattle by a bunch of random strangers (ie men). Girls get the message that they will fail if they do not meet that standard.

queenjellybelly · 01/10/2013 19:11

Just like I would fail if I entered X factor. We should get rid of that too. Human beings should obviously never seek to take part in anything for fear of failure & the lasting impact that has on our future confidence and emotional well being.

mathanxiety · 01/10/2013 19:25

Do they get to choose to compete at anything else where absolutely no talent or aptitude is required though? Competitions like this only encourage the Cinderella syndrome, where women are 'chosen' for their beauty and congeniality and can leave a life of drudgery and anonymity behind.

Again, Queenjellybelly, to me it's not the individual elements of the phenomenon that I object to. It's the idea that women submit themselves to a panel for judgement. I have no problem whatsoever with women parading around in anything they choose for their own amusement, but when women submit themselves for judgement that is where I think they have made a mistake.

It's not the fact that some are bound to fail either. It's the whole judging element that degrades. They are not livestock as someone upthread pointed out. If you ever went to mart or even to a dog show you would see shocking similarities.

FloraFox · 01/10/2013 19:32

This isn't about you or any other individual woman participating in Miss World. It's about the presentation of women as a sex class and its effect on society as a whole and women as a class. It's not about one person failing to win a competition that may (x-factor, sort of) or may not (Miss World) involve talent. It's about conveying a message to women and girls that they will be judged by society on a set of criteria that are arbitrary, largely outside their control and related only to one aspect of their being (their looks).

mathanxiety · 01/10/2013 19:34

And it's about women going along with the judging and even encouraging it.

queenjellybelly · 01/10/2013 19:59

I'm not disputing that these women are being judged on their looks, poise, presentation. These are beauty pageants!! They are NOT being judged on talent or whether they are mensa pentathletes! I would personally find it more harmful to be judged on something such as my intelligence or talent & be found wanting! Fortunately, I recognise my own intelligence & can appreciate my own worth despite not having won every contest I ever entered. It certainly never did me or anyone else I know any harm, & I can honestly say it has added significantly to my life experiences & confidence which I am pretty certain have contributed to my success in my long standing career. A career, I might add, where good looks can be detrimental. In many cases these pageants have been a platform for individuals (men as well as women) to move on to successful careers in promotions, modelling, acting, advertising, fashion & 'behind the scenes' work. In my case, following a radio interview, I quite surprisingly ended up as a radio DJ for a while! I can't speak for miss world, (I never got that far!) but leading up to miss uk, it was a requirement to raise money for local childrens charities. I get that some people like to rip this kind of thing to shreds & understand that, once upon a time it may have contributed to young women having poor body confidence, but no more than the use of air brushing & photoshop in magazines. In fact, it is much lower profile now & barely makes the local paper. In the wider scheme of things I really cannot see what the big deal is. Perhaps this is because I respect people's right to hold their opinion but find it offensive when that opinion is imposed in others. I understand that not everyone holds this view.

AnandaTimeIn · 01/10/2013 20:07

I find it one of life's little ironies that feminists and fundamental misogynistic Muslims both condemn Miss World grin

mathanxiety · 01/10/2013 20:12

I'm not disputing that these women are being judged on their looks, poise, presentation. These are beauty pageants!! They are NOT being judged on talent or whether they are mensa pentathletes!

Well that's the problem.

I would personally find it more harmful to be judged on something such as my intelligence or talent & be found wanting! Fortunately, I recognise my own intelligence & can appreciate my own worth despite not having won every contest I ever entered.

And so it should be with your appearance and poise or whatever else goes into it.

It has nothing to do with poor body confidence among women. That is their own issue. The whole problem is women explicitly giving others the right to judge them for anything.

queenjellybelly · 01/10/2013 20:13

Amanda. Well said!!! Have a drink to celebrate our femininity!

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