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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

I don't know whether to be depressed, outraged or a bit interested....

24 replies

HeartsTrumpDiamonds · 09/07/2013 21:56

Married to the Job

This new six-part series follows high ranking female police officers and looks at how they combine running serious criminal investigations with having a family. Thurs 11 July, ITV1 8.30pm

I mean, what? WTAF? Where is the documentary about the senior male police officers combining a career and family?

So is it good that the issue is being highlighted and discussed? Bad that many women still find it difficult to have a family and a career in this day and age? Helpful that it will hopefully spark some more discussion? A sign of the oppressive patriarchy obviously. I can't help thinking that almost 50 years after my mother burned her bra, we should be further along by now.

(I'm still going to watch it though.)

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MyHumpsMyLovelyBabyBumps · 09/07/2013 22:02

sounds a bit rubbish to me. would have been interesting if they had put it from the perspective of how they are treated (as high ranking female police offers) and what obstacles they over come within the force

Original poster
HeartsTrumpDiamonds · 09/07/2013 22:27

Yeah. There must be a massive glass ceiling in Scotland Yard (like so many other places).

I just don't understand why it's all "ooooh, look, she has a job AND babies" when practically every man you meet over say 40 has both. DH and I both work full time and yet his boss has actually said to him "well can't your wife do that?" when asking for say a day off to go to Sports Day or having to leave early to get home for the babysitter. Angry

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HappyJustToBe · 09/07/2013 22:32

It is because it is the woman's job, innit. Even when we talk about equality childcare is still for women.

DH has taken annual leave this week to look after DD because the childminder is on holiday and one of my colleagues was going on about how good he was, bless him, annual leave just to look after DD, aren't you lucky?

Urgh.

Original poster
HeartsTrumpDiamonds · 09/07/2013 22:41

I know Happy, drives me insane. Oooh, your DH is babysitting for you on Thursday so you can go to your work dinner?

Er, no. He is parenting his own children.

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thecatfromjapan · 09/07/2013 22:43

"DH has taken annual leave this week to look after DD because the childminder is on holiday and one of my colleagues was going on about how good he was, bless him, annual leave just to look after DD, aren't you lucky?"

One day someone will say that to me and I will explode rather than seethe.

A "friend" confided to me the other day that she had been jealous of me for ages because my dh used to pick dd up from childcare one evening a week. One in ten pick up/drop offs. And not even every week. But she was jealous.

Jealous.

How utterly depressing is that?

She has sat at my table, eaten food I have made for her, cried on me about things in her life ... all the time harbouring hate in her heart because my dh does this small, minimal thing. Far less than he should, frankly. Yet it has been enough to diminish all the acts of friendship I have done for my friend - in the eyes of my friend.

Do I have permission to officially write her off as a "friend" because she is so small-minded as to be not-human? Or should I pity her as a brain-washed, limited-in-imagination idiot and push on with the friend bits?

Original poster
HeartsTrumpDiamonds · 09/07/2013 22:44

I'll be interested to see how many of the women have partners with full-on, high-powered careers, and how many are SAHP's or part timers (not to imply that part time work cant be incredibly rewarding, stressful etc).

I want to see how they split all the domesticity and life admin tasks. I hope the show goes into that.

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thecatfromjapan · 09/07/2013 22:47

I see what you mean, Hearts. But ... why is it always high-powered women we have to watch, read, hear about? What about us ordinary women? Are we interesting?

And wouldn't it be funny to have a bit of "equality" programming there, and have a programme about the home set-up of equivalent men? That might give us all the rage, frankly.

You know, I really am at a rolling boil about domestic equality, work and children these days. I find I am getting really, really angry.

kim147 · 09/07/2013 22:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
HeartsTrumpDiamonds · 09/07/2013 22:50

thecat imagine how shit her DH must be if she is jealous of that little thing?

How about trying to enlighten her and point out that both of your DHs should be doing more? Then planning on going on strike together Grin

Mine is pretty good but still fails to see just how brainwashed he is / we all are by the patriarchy.

I am just dusting off my feminist boots after too long (was really quite radical at uni and in my twenties, then kinda got sidetracked, and now MN is thankfully opening it all up for me again) and I am shocked at how much even I have come to normalise certain things that the patriarchy imposes on all of us.

There was another thread on here about this sort of thing and so many of the posters on it were, just because they were the female half, the Family PA. That's us here. DH claims that "it's because you're so much better at it" but the reality is that he thinks it is the mum's job. Women's work. Angry

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Original poster
HeartsTrumpDiamonds · 09/07/2013 22:54

Sorry cat bit of an x post!

Ordinary women - yes yes! And a show about the menz. But who would be interested in that - no one EVER asks a man about his domestic arrangements. Unless he has been caught shagging the secretary and the wife has turfed him out.

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Original poster
HeartsTrumpDiamonds · 09/07/2013 22:57

Kim147 I see your point and I have a huge amount of admiration and respect for any woman or man doing that job.

But why is it only the women who have to "balance running criminal investigations with having a family?" Surely there are tons of senior male detectives with children. Why is it so much easier or less of an issue for them? (rhetorical question!)

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kim147 · 09/07/2013 23:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

thecatfromjapan · 09/07/2013 23:16

Agree with everything you have all said ...

but, to be positive, it's probably been put together by women, who are interested in women, and think it'll be good to get more women and women's issues into the mainstream. so ... there is that.

And kim touches on the fact that detectives obviously fascinate us: there are so many fiction shows about them.

so I'm sure you're right to be interested (along with everything else) Hearts.

(Hearts, I think you're right in your analysis of that remark by a friend. In fact you are so right, I should have seen it far sooner. Thank you for your remarks. And it's probably true about any-one who says that kind of thing. In future I will just reflect on how rubbish things must be with them. And long for the day that domestic set-ups are different.)

kim147 · 09/07/2013 23:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LalyRawr · 09/07/2013 23:27

Hearts I had a blazing 20 minute rant at my FIL when he said OH was 'babysitting' our DD.

Never has the word crossed his lips since.

My dad was a DCI. Balancing was an issue for him. His job meant a lot, but he wanted to make sure he actually spent time with us. Nt just doing the Disney dad weekend thing, but helping us with our homework, beng there at bath and bedtime, seeing our shows and sports days. He made a big effort and sacrificed two promotions I know of to enable to be there for us.

He may have been a man, but he cared. And he juggled and balanced just as much as my mum.

They are not all bad Sad

thecatfromjapan · 09/07/2013 23:31

Laly- I think that is a reason why it would be so good to have programmes also looking at men and their domestic situation. You are right, some men do make pro-family choices, and get penalised, and that opens a really interesting landscape for discussion.

MyHumpsMyLovelyBabyBumps · 09/07/2013 23:32

if friend was jealous I think sympathy is what you should offer. that's shit Sad

TheDoctrineOfAllan · 10/07/2013 00:33

Thecat, I'm glad you've forgiven your friend. Some of mine come out with things like that (not the jealous line but the ooh, you're so lucky line). .

sashh · 10/07/2013 06:31

I actually think it would be more interesting to look at lower ranks, male and female and look at other jobs that involve shift work.

My brother is in the police, his wife is a nurse, they used to juggle shifts like mad when their youngest was born. They hardly saw each other, but for the first 3 years of her life my elder nice was only ever looked after by her parents. She did go to playgroup, had the odd evening with gp babysitting and sometimes was lucky enough to have both parents together.

exoticfruits · 10/07/2013 06:56

I don't think that it matters whether you are a man or a woman- anyone married to the job means that it takes a big toll on parenthood, relationships and family life. You need to be sure that you want this as a family unit. I wouldn't want to be married to any job - and I wouldn't have children with a man who was putting his entire energies into a job. If he has said that he is coming home at 7pm and I am going out to a meeting I don't expect a phone call to say that actually he won't be back until 10pm- equally if I am expecting to leave at 6pm for my child's school parent's appointment I am not going to stay late and miss it.
It takes a special kind of person to be in that type of job.

Original poster
HeartsTrumpDiamonds · 10/07/2013 10:47

All very good and interesting points. Laly your dad sounds lovely.

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badguider · 10/07/2013 12:07

The show would interest me a lot more if it was about women in general in high ranking police jobs - as then I think you'd get more of an idea about what is a result of being a 'mother' and what is just being a 'woman' in that world.
My experience when people focus on the challenges of balancing motherhood with work is that the emphasis becomes on the personal decisions those mothers have to make every day and they ignore the everyday sexism that non-mother women experience.

Original poster
HeartsTrumpDiamonds · 10/07/2013 12:22

Yes exotic but I think women and society place so many more expectations regarding parenting on a woman's shoulders than a man's.

If I have to be out three evenings in a week for work, I
(a) feel guilty for not being there for homework and bedtime
(b) feel like I'm imposing in asking DH to get home in time for the babysitter to leave in the evening,
(c) organise childcare, pickups from activities and playdates in my absence
(d) feel resentful that DH's boss is going to give him a hard time for having to leave early for childcare reasons and will ask him repeatedly "why can't your wife do that?", and
(e) miss my kids.

If DH has three work things in a week, he misses the kids. That's it. No feelings of guilt, of imposition, of resentment. Why? Why is it so different for me???

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Original poster
HeartsTrumpDiamonds · 10/07/2013 12:24

Badguider that is a whole other (but related) can of worms!

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