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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

Sigh, my happy feminist vibe didn't last long then....

27 replies

AnnieLobeseder · 04/06/2013 14:17

So I've been having a happy feminist week, buoyed up the successes of the #FBrape campaign and Chime for Change (Laura Bates is my hero ). It was so wonderful to to hear good news on my various feminist feeds for a change.

But since then, here on MN, I've been arguing debating with women who think that a woman whose husband refuses to do any housework should just STFU and get on with doing it herself, and who think that because men are physically stronger, this means that women are inferior and there's no point in trying to achieve equality in any area (even ones where physical strength is completely irrelevant).

Sigh. While victories are lovely, it doesn't take long for reality to set back in, does it?

OP posts:

bigkidsdidit · 04/06/2013 14:19

yup

I too was happy this week with some excellent programmes on the suffragettes

then I dared read the comments on a Guardian article you can always trust CIF to bring you back to earth!

seeker · 04/06/2013 14:22

Well,I, for one, found it all very informative. I didn't realize that the reason the has only ever been one female prime minister, and there ar no women Bishops is that men are physically stronger than men. It's all become clear to me now.

And it's important to remember that there a lots of jobs that men just can't do because their willies get in the way. You just don't understand how hard it is for the poor dears to reach the sink......

YesAnastasia · 04/06/2013 14:29

It's disheartening isn't it? I feel so much in the minority that I often feel as if I'm the unreasonable one. I simply did not choose 'housewife' as I did 'mother'. I will happily nurture, teach and love my children all day long for as long as I am needed to (or I need to get a job...) because that was my choice & I love it. I did not however, choose to be a housekeeper. I don't want to be tidying and cleaning all day when I should be with my children and I sure as f**k don't want to carry on cooking, cleaning and preparing for the next day all evening while my husband enjoys his relaxation time because he's been at 'work' all day 'earning the money that keeps a roof over' our head!

No one else agrees with me though & I just can't conform, I silently rebel every single day & I'm sorry to say it's making me a very bitter woman. Or a drunk one.

Anyway, I hear you.

RakeABedOfTyneFilth · 04/06/2013 14:30

I'm surprised about the Doctor Who stuff. I have no knowledge whatsoever about the finer points of geeky detail, but apparently it is absolutely critical that the Time Lord is a man, because if he regenerated as a woman, that would mean certain things in the back story wouldn't be true or something. Wondering whether that means his sonic screwdriver was actually a detachable penis.

KaseyM · 04/06/2013 18:08

My happy feminist vibe has dissipated too OP after reading that Dr Who thread and discovering that most people would be mortified to have a female Dr Who.

Original poster

AnnieLobeseder · 04/06/2013 23:43

Sad isn't it? The horror of a popular cult TV figure being female!

OP posts:

Original poster

AnnieLobeseder · 04/06/2013 23:44

Though the post asking if his sonic screwdriver was actually a detachable penis did make me laugh!

OP posts:

bats22 · 04/06/2013 23:50

Could be a new line for Ann Summers...

Spiritedwolf · 05/06/2013 01:24

I missed the Dr. Who discussion, DH is a fan of the older series(es? what on earth is the plural?), so he gets a bit annoyed when they change things in the newer series(es?) but they have changed a heck of a lot I hear the grumbles about it all, for instance apparently the sonic screwdriver is too multifunctional now , so I don't think a female doctor would be impossible.

The real problem seems to be this Time war which conviently destroyed all the Time Lords (and Ladies?) along with the Daleks (except for when it hasn't for a storyline), a Time Lady surviving co-star would be nice as long as her name wasn't The Nurse

I'd settle for a female companion that doesn't drool over a 900 year old alien tbh. There really doesn't need to be hetronormative interspecies attraction between the Doctor and the companions.

DH has informed me that there is nothing (storywise anyway -racism in casting is an unfortunately alive and well) that would prevent a man of colour being the Doctor. And/or an older doctor - I see Mark Williams (Mr Weasley) in that role - enthusistic, geekish about muggles humans.

Spiritedwolf · 05/06/2013 01:42

Female Timelord rather than Time Lady maybe :)

LRDtheFeministDragon · 05/06/2013 06:57

I'm depressed by that whole thread. I notice, incidentally, that it seems perfectly acceptable to be transphobic so long as you are mocking transsexuality and not trying to have a serious debate about ideology.

(Not that I'm condoning being transphobic in either situation, I just quite frequently think the serious debates on here end up with people between a rock and a hard place in terms of trying to find language to discuss what they mean, without using 'woman' in a way that's exclusive.)

Original poster

AnnieLobeseder · 05/06/2013 08:25

I have been very pleased to find out that apparently women are better at ultra-running than men. As I have always suspected, when you push human beings to the very limits of endurance, women are stronger than men.

OP posts:

WilsonFrickett · 05/06/2013 11:01

I am fucked the fuck off this week. I don't like when I get like this because I jump on DH for every single little thing. I bit his head off for asking when DS next dentist appointment was (I handle DS medical stuff. That's fine. That's been agreed. DH handles other stuff. The question was fine.)

Mostly this did it. Lindy West is amazing, but my God the comments....

lisianthus · 05/06/2013 11:30

Yes, that Dr Who thread was a bit weird. I saw the title and thought "actually, that would be really interesting! (particularly if it was someone like Alex Kingston)" and then clicked on the thread and people were getting really worked up and accusing the OP of trying to make a (heavens to Betsy!) feminist point, which she wasn't- she had just thought of it as an interesting idea as well.

And people kept saying that the Doctor had to be someone women found attractive and men would want to be like and I was thinking "Jon Pertwee? Tom Baker? REALLY!?"

LRDtheFeministDragon · 05/06/2013 11:37

There is a lot, at the moment, of the 'stop insisting everything has to be feminist' stuff. I get that if you're not feminist, or even feminist but don't care about issue x, that you may not want to discuss that perspective. What I don't get is the idea that it is somehow offensive and aggressive for other people to do it. It seems to go:

Poster 1: What do you think about x?
Poster 2: I like it!
Poster 3: I hate it!
Poster 4: I don't care.
Feminist Poster 5: I don't personally like it, but don't care if other people do.
Posters 1-4: HOW DARE YOU TELL US WHAT TO BE OFFENDED ABOUT!

ChunkyPickle · 05/06/2013 11:51

Ugh, the Dr Who thread - loads of people saying they were more geeky than others so their opinion (that it's traditional) mattered more.

I'm a fan, I'm geeky, and I really, really can't see the problem to have a female doctor, or why it's supposed to be some feminist issue rather than just an interesting change - personally I really don't want another fawning female and strangely attractive bloke - I was raised on Peter Davidson/Tom Baker/SylvesterMcCoy - I don't remember romance ever being an issue!

bigkidsdidit · 05/06/2013 11:59

I chose to see that thread as hilarious rather than depressing. All the frothing - it was so Anchorman 'it is anchorMAN not anchorLADY and that is a scientific fact!'

I'm in a good mood today. I've been watching Mad Men and thinking - my mother was growing up then, going to university. so much has got so dramatically better since then. If we keep on buggering on I am hopeful we will improve things too. And I went to a workshop last week my work (a staid old RG uni) put on to help women advance in their careers. It was great :)

zippey · 05/06/2013 12:55

I was surprised at the Dr Who thread as well, I cant see any problem with a woman doing the role. Some suggestions like Dame Helen Mirren (and others, names I forget) could have worked brilliantly. Im finding the whole male Doctor and fiesty female tiring. I wouldnt mind a female Dr Who or a fiesty male side-kick. I think the reason for having a younger, female sidekick is maybe because of power play.

AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom · 05/06/2013 13:52

My 'sigh of despair' moment today was that bloody new pregnancy advice. 'Chemicals' might cause developmental problems, or they might not, and we don't know which ones do. In the meantime women, it is your fault as you are guardians of you future children's health, so find some magical way of minimising this or we'll blame you later.

Though thankfully most of MN seems to agree it is rather shit.

UptoapointLordCopper · 05/06/2013 14:30

Well, I'm quite happy today (feministly(?) speaking) - I spoke to 4 women and they were all very knowledgeable and competent in their areas of expertise, and they were nice.

Startail · 05/06/2013 15:08

The pregnancy advice, blaming mothers for everything is shit.

The female comedian is an idiot, she is doing just what the misogynist cunts want by letting them enter her consciousness. Bullies thrive on attention.

Dr Who cannot be female because he avoids all the deeper issues in his life by running around being a geek. This is intrinsically a male behaviour pattern.

Dr Who works as a family programme for all ages because the deeper issues are only there for adults and teenage girls who want to see them. I can't imagine a believable female Dr. who wouldn't be either very hard and unlovable or very nice down to earth and practical. Either way it just wouldn't work.

Spiritedwolf · 05/06/2013 15:33

my main thought atm (beyond the blatant transphobia of comments that men can't turn into women - especially not if they are fictional characters in a sci-fi story who get new bodies obviously as it wouldn't be realistic ) is that there would be an awful lot of ridiculous writing along the lines of "ooh breasts".

I was a bit down about that story too Amanda, I mean of course lets give women mixed messages about how they can protect their unborn children rather than you know forcing companies to stop adding harmful crap to products that people use in their homes and on thier bodies or at least, y'know make them have to list all the ingredients so we can make informed decisions, pregnant or not.

The quanitity of man-made chemicals getting into our bodies, our foetuses and breastmilk is a disturbing development of unknown consequences - but it is the job of society to stop companies from polluting our environment through regulation (a la "The Story of Stuff") you can't really expect individual women to be able to police the load of environmental pollutants at the placental level.

GoshAnneGorilla · 05/06/2013 19:21

With the Dr Who thread, I found it most amusing that the OP was told to leave her own thread for daring to discuss Dr Who without being a serious fan.

I thought it was a perfectly valid question. I also don't see a problem with a female Watson either, Lucy Liu > most blokes anyway.

Beachcomber · 05/06/2013 20:26

I don't give a shit about Dr Who.

But it seems obbvviiioosss that it is well overdue that the role is played by a woman.

lisianthus · 05/06/2013 21:05

Ok, bigkidsdidit's Anchorman shout out has just cheered me up. This is lucky as I came back to this thread from the thread about some women preferring male friends as "women are like [insert stereotype] and men are like [insert stereotype]".

Is it misogynist asshat week?

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