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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Just pause for a moment and think about this child.

26 replies

sashh · 02/07/2012 05:05

I know things are far from perfect from a feminist point of view, but this just reminded me of how far we have come, and what some people think is OK.

A 12 year old Soudi girl was 'married off' to an 80 year old man. He thinks he has done nothing wrong.

www.arabnews.com/node/333776

OP posts:
FallenCaryatid · 02/07/2012 06:18

When I worked in the NW of England in a school with a very high ethnic minority intake, I learned very quickly not to assume that the child in my class was not being collected by her or his grandfather.
We had a large number of men who would marry a teenager when they were in their late 50s or 60s with the full approval of the families involved. So although the case is horrifying, you don't have to look very far to find similar examples, although not as young in the marriage, betrothals were often in the 12-14 bracket.
She withdrew her objection? Makes you wonder what sort of pressure and coercion she was under to do so. Angry

EdithWeston · 02/07/2012 06:57

I don't think there was a thread (in FWR or elsewhere on MN) about the release of a report last week about just how big a killer of teenage girls globally are the complications of pregnancy.

This Saudi marriage is one example of a practice which affects hundreds and thousands of girls every year.

EdithWeston · 02/07/2012 07:02

Link to report and press coverage.

It did make the mainstream media in UK, but wasn't a big story.

VictorGollancz · 02/07/2012 07:42

Thanks for that link. I think I'll wait for my first coffee to read it...

garlicbutt · 03/07/2012 01:37

Hurrah, that girl did get divorced.

On the same page, though: "Elham Mahdi, a 12-year-old Yemeni girl, reportedly died of internal bleeding three days after marrying an older man."
What a bastard.

God, we used to do this to our daughters too :(

ComradeJing · 03/07/2012 05:19

Those poor children.

What can we, in the west, do to help? Does anyone know?

Mouseface · 03/07/2012 08:34

My DD is 13, the thought of doing that to her, forcing her to marry is just so wrong to me. I saw THIS well, a similar story on our local news (West Midlands) and a tiny spark of hope lit up.

It's going to take so much more than this though isn't it?

Original poster
sashh · 04/07/2012 05:34

What can we, in the west, do to help? Does anyone know?

We can support people like Manal Sharif. OK drivving is different to child bride, but it's all about women/girls rights isn't it, all part of the big picture.

Manal Sharif was arrested for driving a car in Saudi Arabia.

latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/06/q-a-the-saudi-woman-who-dared-to-drive.html

There is also an online petition - but it is in Arabic.

OP posts:
OP posts:
StealthPolarBear · 04/07/2012 06:19

Is this something that is widely accepted? Or do.the majority of Saudi arabians also think its disgusting, with a small group carrying out. The practice?

StealthPolarBear · 04/07/2012 06:20

Fallen, did you not report them? It surely would be classed as grooming?

FallenCaryatid · 04/07/2012 07:01

Engaged at 12 or 13, married overseas by 15 and back by 16 when it is legal.
There have been a lot of campaigns over the years to try and change the situation.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/392619.stm

www.irinnews.org/Report/92375/BANGLADESH-Parents-still-not-heeding-child-marriage-warnings

StealthPolarBear · 04/07/2012 07:07

Dif you report them

FallenCaryatid · 04/07/2012 07:33

For what?
The parents remove the child from school around 12 and send her back to the home country, she arrives back here 4 years later, legally married at 16 with parental consent and often with a baby.
Campaigning at a national and international level, educating the children to encourage them to recognise other life chances than forced marriage and education as a whole are the only real tools that work.

StealthPolarBear · 04/07/2012 09:08

Well you implied that their "fiances" pick them up from school. You strongly suspect grooming and are in this country

garlicbutt · 04/07/2012 12:15

There's a big battle over it between dyed-in-the-wool traditionalists and progressives.

The marriage of young girls, often to much older men, has been at the forefront of public debate in Saudi Arabia for a couple of years. It escalated early last year after it was reported that a man had contracted to give his eight-year-old daughter in marriage to a 47-year-old man in order to pay a financial debt. The contract was annulled after a public outcry.
www.thenational.ae/news/world/middle-east/saudi-sheikh-says-child-marriages-are-no-longer-justifiable

Apparently there's greater resistance to change in Yemen than in Saudi. The Yemeni parliament is all set to ban child marriage (at least, it was last year) but the Shariah opposition won't ratify it. There have been demonstrations by Yemeni women against the delay - not the ban, as sometimes reported. Approx half of Yemeni women are married before age 18.

Child marriage is also a big problem in India.

StealthPolarBear · 05/07/2012 13:47

Thanks garlicbutt. Good to knw it's challenged.
I am struggling with the thought that in this country someone would watch a child being picked up by their much older 'fiance' and do nothing. Surely there is something the authorities can do?

VegansTasteBetter · 08/07/2012 00:48

Fallen says she saw old men picking up boys AND girls.i think she meant that they were dads and not grandfathers as you would expect them to be at their age, because presumably they have very young wives. I don't think a fiance (sp?) Would have unrestricted access to the girl they were marrying in those cultures either

StealthPolarBear · 08/07/2012 07:16

Oh that makes more sense thank you. Apologies fallen I got completely the wrong end of the stick

FallenCaryatid · 08/07/2012 08:24

Smile Glad that's sorted.
Many of the men were in their 60s and 70s and had a wife in her early 20s with a child a year. So having come from teaching in a very different area, I assumed at first that it must be a grandfather until I was put straight.
Many also had two families; one back in their home country and one here.

EdithWeston · 08/07/2012 08:28

Globally, the biggest killer of teenage girls is the consequences of pregnancy.

This isn't just a Saudi issue, sadly. It's life and death on a massive scale.

Aboutlastnight · 08/07/2012 08:52

Have you read infidel by Ayaan Hirsi Ali? She grew up in Somalia, Kenya and Saudi and finally claimed asylum in The Netherlands. It is an amazing story and the social details are fascinating.

Aboutlastnight · 08/07/2012 09:18

Have you read infidel by Ayaan Hirsi Ali? She grew up in Somalia, Kenya and Saudi and finally claimed asylum in The Netherlands. It is an amazing story and the social details are fascinating.

ComplexityAndFecundityOfDreams · 08/07/2012 10:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

peoplesrepublicofmeow · 08/07/2012 11:13

ayaan hirsi ali is compelled by one motive, cash. and she doesnt give a hoot who she offends in the process.

she made a documenary with theo van gogh (a decendent from vincent) in which passages from the Qoran were projected onto the body of a naked woman.

she new full well that this would inflame and offend, but she got rich.

Theo van gogh was assasinated.

she fled to america and joined some ultra-right-wing-neo-conservative-cristian-right-islamophobe PA company , they wanted her .

with freedom of speech comes responability.