HAGS : the demonisation of middle aged women

[RRRException]

Got this yesterday and cannot put it down.

Reading it almost weeping and punching the air at the same time.

Many references to MN. So many sections I need to highlight and read again.

What a fantastic read. Who would like to discuss?

Ooh. I’ve seen it reviewed but haven’t read it. You’ve inspired me to give it a go. I read Hagitude which engaged me ( although I felt the author and I didn’t quite share a worldview).

I intend to get a copy, it sounds really good from the reviews. There are a couple of threads in Feminism about it, too (I don't mean you shouldn't have started this one, OP, just that you might be interested to read them).

I've just ordered it and Amazon tells me it will be delivered tomorrow. Can't wait.

Thank you, I did see a couple but none were people had read it yet. Will have another look!

Im sadly going through it with a highlighter now as there is just too much goodness to miss! Almost wishing if bought it as a Kindle version so I could look up bits more easily!

There is a piece about an article published in UnHerd about a male GP who received a call from a desperate woman in her 50’s about her elderly father soiling himself and her asking for help dealing with this and the casual yet brutal way he dismisses her asking if she’s had kids saying she wouldn’t call up asking for help changing their nappies.

Then goes in to talk about how the person that took time off work to look after the babies will be the person to look after older relatives, not least bc of earlier career breaks /PT work meaning she earns less than male partner/male sibs. And anyway if the woman who has spent years providing such service says no, isn’t she just being mean?

So perfectly articulated.

And the chapter on the “Karen-ing” of middle aged white women is fabulous.

I've been looking at this but really don't want to feel miserable if it's just about all the ways women are demonised and fucked over in society.

Will this just make me feel shit?

That’s not been my experience. I’ve found it really uplifting - unsaid frustrations and bubbling resentment voiced in an easy to read yet forensic articulate way.

@RRRException that's good to hear. I think the guardian called it painful to read or something similar which did put me off.

The Guardian would…….!!

Not known for their liking of this demographic

I’m going to get a copy but it might be a little while so am happy to dip into this thread once you’ve all got going.

The full quote was: 'This rigorous defence of middle-aged women, who are ignored and vilified, is an often painful read and a future classic'

www.theguardian.com/books/2023/feb/27/hags-by-victoria-smith-review-welcome-to-the-age-of-rage

Ah ok. I didn’t find it painful, I found it cathartic. But each to their own.

Just added this to my wish list. Thankyou. The Guardian (probably the Observer) review is excellent.

Re the Karen-ing of white middle aged women:

”Advice given to older women on “how not to be a Karen” can be indistinguishable from traditional advice given on how to be more ladylike, selfless, feminine and take up less space. In order to avoid the label we are told to “vent [our] anger elsewhere” “let someone else take charge” “have empathy” and “have a less offensive haircut”.

The Karen-ing of middle aged women has felt like a huge affront to me for years now and it’s just so good to see it taken apart in detail in one of the chapters.

I've just finished this and found it amazing, and a bit depressing but I guess you need to know the extent of the problem to tackle it as uncomfortable as that is. One question: if anyone has the book handy, could you please tell me what the last word is?? (Before acknowledgements and after "dead"). I listened on Audible and couldn't work it out!

@Fiftyisthenewsixty Just checked for you. It's INGTBI (no wonder Audible couldn't cope). Referencing the very start of the book and means I'm not going to be ignored (I'm sure you knew that, but I haven't read it yet so I was confused)!

@PinkGrapefruitSorbet Thank you! No wonder I couldn't work it out! I think I might buy the paper book too as I don't feel I take as much in only listening.

Thanks for the recommendation. I've just reserved a copy from the library.

My library had to buy it in specially!

I've ordered a copy.

Does she address the origin of the whole Karen thing, which was white women weaponising their whiteness against people of colour? Such as Amy Cooper and Mia Poinsetto.

I'm interested to read this though, and I'm also interested to see if she's spoken to any women of colour. Because we've always been demonised, and not only once we've reached middle age.

The Karen thing changed as it came across the Atlantic and in the UK it's not a comment on middle class racists it's simple abuse of working class middle age women.

Yes she makes quite clear where it came from and that she hasn’t explored the race element at all in the book. She says that this is outside of her area of expertise and that she is aware that this book doesn’t go into this. I can’t remember but believe she may recommend alternative pieces of work/authors for this.

If anyone is interested in this book it's 99p on amazon today (Saturday 13th May) as an ebook.