So the book said...........

[Itsthawooluff]

take your horse out for a relaxed walk, it will help with bonding.

I don't think being unable to walk more than 2 yards without having huge cob standing across your path in attempt to go home figured in the author's mind.

Nor did being towed down road at end of lead rein.

So wasn't too relaxing.

Anybody else read a book, bought into the dream, only to have your RL equine friend bring you back down to earth with a bump?

Sounds like you're having basic handling/boundary problems. Try getting a loan of Kelly Marks' "Perfect Manners" and giving her methods a whirl.

I've ordered the book - but is it just selling another dream?

The problem with all these books is that horses cant read

If all else fails I can club her over the head with the book.

Joking, joking.

Kelly Marks is really good. I can heartily recommend join up, I have done it several times and the results are amazing. DD who was 8 at the time even did it with her pony, It made me cry!

No... I don't think Kelly Marks stuff is full of shit - there are some stuff I didn't attempt, e.g., getting her to walk backwards through a set of l-shaped poles on the ground (because I am lazy rather than horse unwilling ). But I can make her back up just using hand movements when she's not even on the rope and she'll move to the side when I just indicate that she should... takes a bit of time and practice but well worth it.

It's just about having your horse understand your body language rather than yanking on ropes and yelling.

Had a "natural horseman" at my yard yesterday actually. All the horses were out in the herd and he was trying to catch the dominant female (mine). She was going bonkers with the number 2 girl because there is a new big boy in the herd. He sent the two girls off and the gelding came after him and tried to "threaten" him in horse language. He (using body language) told the gelding in NO uncertain terms that he was the dominant male, the gelding slunk off, the girls calmed down and my girl dropped her head and sloped off to his side.

That sounds really good - can't wait for the book to arrive now.

Thanks for the recommendation.

Kelly's website is here: www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk/ It's got a pretty good forum and Kelly's demonstrations/open evenings are supposed to be amazing. I've never been but my mum is always popping along to either hers or Monty Roberts ones.

hello wooluff How's it going? Have you got the best behaved horse in all of England yet?

Hi,

Not yet, work have very inconsiderately been sending me all over the country. Don't they know their role is just to fund my horse habit.

I got the Kelly Marks book though and have read about two thirds of it. Actually I'm pretty impressed, its much less full of tuut than the usual stuff.

Have also got Dually halter, but wanted to have a go at Join up this weekend, before I start trying to move her about in that. Can you do join up in a pen made of electric fencing rather than 12 ft high wood? We'll see

just like my work..!!

We teach ponies to have a bit of respect for space by using Dually head collar and when leading out twirling lead rope in front so they stay back and learn not to rush on.

Also make yourself very big, wtih arms held out to sides and if they try and push past make nosie and twirl lead rein and move into their space so they know not to move into your.

Its all about being dominant and confident without force and yanking on ropes...and yes ..join up works just as well in electric fenced ring.

...oh and use lunge line or parelli rope rather than lead rien.. more to hold onto.

You can do join up in a pen made of electric fencing tape, if you are not going to push the horse too hard, and if your horse is respectful of the tape. I use a tape roundpen for liberty work, but I don't do join up and I think it could be a problem with that, as you do have to push the horse a bit, they might decide to exit. The Monty Robert people tend to use more robust pens, like cages or with wooden rails, but that's not 100% essential.
Kelly Marks tends not to refer to herself and her associates as natural horsemen, they are rather against the term, as they associate it with Parelli, which they hate.
I would recommend you get a bit of instruction to get you started (whether or not you want to learn join up). Would it help if you say where you are and maybe we can recommend someone?
Oh, you can get a horse joined up with you without a pen. A lot of horsemen get the same results via their groundwork, then when they take the halter off, the horse has hooked on to them.

This is all true - you don't need a "Monty" pen - if your horse is responsive and you're doing it right you can do it in an arena or sand paddock - or even the field itself!

Personally I didn't need help getting my warmblood to join up - but the Evil Haflinger scared the life out of me and although the RA got him to join-up I was just never comfortable turning my back on him.

Make sure you've got the Dually fitted properly and don't EVER turn out with it on or leave the horse unattended. I do realise this is all "preaching to the choir" so I'm sorry if I'm sounding patronising.

The Dually can also be used for other behavioural problems. E.g, One of Kelly's RA's (Recommended Associate) came out to be to deal with my Fiendishly Evil Haflinger who'd rip chunks out of me when grooming him, basically she threaded the lunge rope through the Dually and tied the other end to the fence. This meant that I had plenty of rope to play with and when his head (inevitably did!) turn around to bite me I was able to quickly "tell him off" using the Dually but then of course immediately release the pressure.

Don't tie up in a Dually either, if you've got the rope attached to the side rings. You need to have the rope on the ring at the bottom.
Personally I'm not keen on them, the most I'd use is a simple, non-closing, rope halter.
If you work through the ground exercises in Perfect Manners you may be surprised at how "joined up" your horse becomes. All simply done at the end of the rope. A tip - in Perfect Manners Kelly starts with backup. Some horses, particularly those with issues, find backup the hardest thing to do. If you start with the yielding front end exercises first, then go back to backup when you have them soft, it should be easier.

Thanks for the words of advice.

OK, so using normal headcollar, DD1 and I did the foundation exercises - forward, backing, lateral and standing yesterday evening in the "laminitis" paddock - we don't have arenas.

I didn't try the Dually as I wanted to see what would happen if I tried these in a normal headcollar. You could have knocked me sideways because my fat and bargy cob mare did all these like she was on a training video. I wondered whether someone had done groundwork with her before because she was so well behaved.

DD1 had to work a little harder with her fell pony, especially sideways and standing, but I was very positive about what she could get her to do, and was explaining about baby steps forward meant building a partnership.

Then we just spent sometime walking around the paddock separately using a longish lead rein, "with a smile in it", and seeing if the mares would follow us - and they did.

It was brilliant - I'm so impressed. Lets hjope it works as well when I get back on her

Fantastic news! I'm so pleased for you and great news for your daughter too. Does she feel confident with it too?

She must do, because whilst I was doing the ballet run with dd2, she went through the exercises with her pony on her own. When I got back she couldn't wait to tell me how she had tried again and this time Jezz had gone sideways.

We were using the 12ft lead rope, as my longer lunge rein is a bit too much for DD1 to handle.

I'm in South Worcestershire if anyone can recommend an RA so I can get a bit of a start.

Thanks again.

That's great! I wouldn't bother with a Dually unless you need it. Ditto a lunge line, I work with 12ft lines all the time. (I'm not an Intelligent Horsemanship/Monty Roberts student).
Now what you do is turn your routine leading out into groundwork sessions. Try to keep your horse's mind on you, control the feet tends to be the key.