Working part-time and training days/staff meetings

[mumnosbest]

If you work 4 days but all the training days and staff meetings fall on your day off, do you have to go in for them? Primary school. Thanks

Where I work, part time teacher work the same proportion of training days as they normally work. So .5 teachers do half of training days. They attend all staff meetings.

If you work 4 days because you, for example, volunteered on the 5th, then you couldnt as you have othee commitments. If they want you there, book meetings and training on days that you are there or at least give you TOIL for extra time. If its a work thing, it happens in work time or doesnt happen at all. IMHO.

I go on for all training days. I choose to do half of staff meetings but get paid for these as they fall outside my part time hours (I'm about 0.8 over 5 days).

I go to most INSET days. However, if they are on the day I don't normally work then I get paid to attend them. Staff meetings (after school) are on one of the days that I work now so I go to them. However, for about 6 years they were on one of my non work days - I never went to them then.

I do exactly the pro rata. I'm .5 so go to .5 of training days & meetings. Sometimes that means I go in to training days on my days off. All our meetings are on Mondays and a colleague of mine us never in on Monday. Our faculty meeting will need to be moved so she can attend. She is .8. There is no question of her coming in on her day off for an hours meeting.

In our school (secondary) pt teachers do not attend meetings that fall on their days off. If there is a meeting that it is vital you attend then they should be held on one of your work days. Pt teachers are expected to attend the correct proportion of training days, so somebody working 0.6 should attend 0.6 of the training days, they get to choose which ones they attend so they can pick the ones that interest them the most or the ones that fit most easily with childcare commitments.

What dragonlette said. Burgundy book is quite clear that part timers don't have to attend things on their days off.

Thanks all. I do attend training days and have (untill now) claimed extra hours when they have fallen on my days off. HR have just informed school that as I am working 0.8, I have to attend 4 out of every 5 weekly meeting and training days. Seems unfair as they always fall on my 1 day off. Another teacher also works 0.8 but different days so gets the same pay but never needs to come in on her days off. That means I'll work 4 extra days, an extra hour or so 4/5 weeks and never benefit from bank holidays as I don't work Mondays :(

I'm staggered that HR have said that. As Haggisfish says the burgundy book is quite clear. You should NOT come in on your days off. If it's an INSET day that you really want to attend, then you need to negotiate pay or TOIL for it. You need to find the appropriate paragraph in the burgundy book and show it to HR. Any part-timer who goes in on their day off for no pay, just makes it worse for all the other part-time teachers. Would a full-timer come in for no pay on a Sunday? No. And what about teachers who work in two different schools? Head teachers get paid a lot of money to sort this kind of thing out, so if it seems unfair that some part-timers may end up not needing to attend any meetings, whereas others would have to attend all of them, then it is the headteachers responsibility to sort this out and have meetings on different days, so that everyone attends their correct quota. It is NOT the responsibility of a lower paid part-time teacher, who is probably already working way over their contracted hours anyway.

Thanks DriftingOff that is exactly how I feel but wasn't sure if I'd have a leg to stand on. Will definately look into it now and if I worked in school on my 'day off' I don't know when I'd get all my paperwork done!

I always thought that the pro rata meetings and Inset Days rule was to stop people having to go to too many. For example, if you only work Monday, Tuesday and Weds am and all school meetings fall on a Monday and Tuesday after school, then you could request that you attend half rather than all (due to directed time). It's not there to penalise you.

Therefore, if all Insets and meetings are on your non working days then it is a goodwill gesture on your part if you can attend which you should be paid for or given time off in lieu.

Alternatively if that's not working, can you swap your days on a permanent basis. I work .8 (not Fridays) and if there is a meeting or Inset day on my non working day I do try to get in. But I always take the time in lieu. Always. And I'm SLT.

If it is the weekly staff meeting you are currently not attending then that could be tricky. In my school all part timers are expected to work on Tuesdays (our staff meeting and parent evening day). I would swap days if possible if I was you.

I will talk to head on Tuesday, see if swapping is an option but I doubt it as there are a lot of part-timers and it's been a bit of a juggling act. However I didn't choose which day I had off and I did say I could be flexible. The cost of childcare and getting to work for extra days not to mention odd hours would make it pointless me taking a day off.

I'm 0.4 and our weekly meeting slot is on a day that I attend so no problem there.

However, I run after school clubs on both days I am in and agreed with the head that I would run the clubs rather then attend the meetings. We are a practical dept and the one FT member of staff does not have any spare capacity after school due to other clubs and study support, so if I attended the meeting, the clubs would not run.

I catch up from my line manager instead. The World has not ended yet, so it can be done!

I also attend 0.4 of the INSETS. No issues.

Parents evenings I attend no matter what the day.

Open evenings I normally attend no matter what the day but this year couldn't due to child care as DH working away. On previous years people were always surprised when I came in. This year, because I couldn't come, of course a memo went round at short notice saying all staff had to attend, so that was a bit of an awkward email to the Head, but I was given "permission not to come in my day off, just this once"!!!!

That settles it then...

Additional working time

2013 STPCD Section 2 para 51.24 & 51.25 & STPCD Section 3 statutory guidance paras 91-93

The STPCD provides that part time teachers cannot be required to work or attend non-pupil days on days when they do not normally work (STPCD Section 2, para 51.24).

They may, however, agree to attend staff/departmental meetings, parents/open evenings and INSET days and other non-pupil days on such days by mutual agreement with the head teacher. Where they do agree to work on days when they do not normally work, this cannot by definition be included in directed time. The STPCD therefore includes a provision for additional payment for this working time. The formula for this payment provides, in effect, for part time teachers to receive 1/1265 of the appropriate full time pay rate for each hour of additional working time.

I work in an Independent school, on a 0.45 contract.
All part-time staff at the school have recently received a letter stating that they must attend all INSET days whether they are due to work on that day or not. No payment has been offered.

All five of our INSET days are on a Monday, and I don't work on Mondays. I stand to lose about £200 in childcare fees for these days. I also take my DD to a couple of prepaid classes, and I will lose the class fee. I won't be paid as I'm unlucky enough to not work on a Monday.

I'm relatively new to the school and am trying to make a good impression with a view to increasing my hours and responsibilities in coming years.

My DH (not a teacher) thinks I should just not say anything and go in anyway.

I think it's totally unfair! The Burgundy book doesn't apply as it is an Independent school. The HT can be prickly over these things.

What to do??

minniemouse if it's not in your contract and wasn't mentioned in the recruitment process they can't force you. The only thing they can do is sack you if this is that big a deal for them, which would be unlikely if you're good at your job. In your situation I think I would write back something like "further to your letter, this is an unexpected increase in time commitment, but I understand the value in having all staff present. Your letter made no mention of additional pay for this significant increase in hours. Please could you confirm in writing that the additional time is paid, this will allow me to make appropriate arrangements to allow me to increase my hours as you request."

I wouldn't use terms like " cannot afford to" as that gives legitimacy to the idea that the hours could possibly be accepted unpaid.

I'm part time (0.48) but have two other instrumental jobs when I am not in the main school. I do 0.48 (or thereabouts) of all meetings, parents eves, open days, insets. We recently had an Inset on my day off (except I was teaching at another place) as I had already done the two at the beginning of term all was fine.

I have to go for all insets (always on my days off), and am paid for half of them as I work .5 time. When I agreed to do this it seemed fair somehow!! (Even though I have to pay extra for childcare while I'm there...)

Fishwithabicycle - Thanks for that, that's really helpful.

I'll draft a letter and give it a go.

I am in an independent school.I get paid 1 hour for one staff meeting but have to attend 2/3 full Inset days unpaid. My DH then has to take those days off as I don't have any childcare. It really, really annoys me and as a part time teacher I am fed up of being taken for granted.

part time working does NOT involve pro rata meetings or attending meetings on days off
it is guided by the word FAIRNESS

if you are asked to go in on days that you do not work
then your full time colleges must also be asked to come in on days they do not work - such as Saturdays or Sundays

if you finish work at lunchtime and are expected to wait 3 hrs for a meeting to start you should expect other meetings for full time colleagues to start 3 hrs after the end of their teaching day
anything else is discriminatory and can be sighted as such - unless they are
a. prepared to pay you
b. you are willing to do it

you can negotiate if you like - but you do not have any need to back down from this position

If your school has training days that involve things you need to know to do the job - but are not prepared to pay you to attend - you have been discriminated against....and so on.

I had the union in over this some years ago. My bigwig rep said it's a common misconception that as there are 5 insets, you have to do them pro rata, eg I work 3 days and thought I should have to do 3.

He said you have to attend the ones on the days you work- if they were all on a Monday and you worked at the end of the week, you wouldn't have to do any. You could come in and be paid or choose to come in inpaid but it was your choice. He also said it should be treated as though I had paid employment elsewhere on the days I wasn't at school, eg, in stacking shelves in Tesco on Mondays and Tuesdays-I cannot get the time off...

It was, therefore, in the head's interest to have one on each day of the week (ie one on Monday, one on Tuesday etc) so everyone did their fair share. This rarely happens in my experience though.

This is very interesting to me as someone who has Monday off but is expected to attend 4/5 inset days (pro rata) my head assured me that I had to do this. I don't get paid for attending. Where is that quote from mumsnobest?
What is a burgundy book??

STPCD

I attend meetings and INSET on the days I work only. It means I often end up over DT budget for meetings but about right for INSET