Sigh!Back again for more advice on 'The Feuding Felines'!

[Applecrumbly]

Okay so we are now 6 weeks down the line with the terrible two.8 mth old female kitten and 2 yr old stray female tabby who adopted us in November. From early on we realised that it is clearly kitten who is the aggressor and initiates the fights but it is still non-bloody -stop.Stray is lovely ,docile affectionate creature and I am so fond of her but kitten will not let up.It goes like this non stop...cat minding her own business and kitten creeps up and lunges at her with her paw and then cat reacts and chases her and lots of hissing etc.After too much of this big cat then chases kitten and corners her on the stairs/against a wall and smacks her with her paw.Then even when kitten is clearly frightened by this she [kitten] will immediately run after big cat again and so it goes on and on.If they are simply left to get on with it upstairs all you can hear downstairs is constant scurrying across the floorboards chasing each other.
They sleep in each others beds and eat from each others bowls and use each others litter trays during the day.
I separate them at night and if I am going out.
Any thoughts please experts as in will this ever stop?Does it sound like it will always be like this or will we simply persevere?Its horrible for everyone now..
Sorry ,I feel like I am always here asking the same question but I honestly would have expected things to be fairly ok by now.
I don't know if its better to let them sort it out themselves or keep trying as much as possible to keep them apart.

So no biting? Just hissing & hitting?

Do you think kitten just wants to play & adopted cats too old for that kind of shenanigans?

No biting fluffy I don't think.I honestly don't think she wants to play..I think she just wants the big cat out.Could something like this just settle down in time or should there be signs of it happening by now?
I really don't want to send the stray to the local rescue as its chock full of cats and she can have such a lovely life here if small fry just behaves.

Remind me - are they both neutered?

And has there been no improvement at all? eg they weren't always eating from each other's bowls etc were they?

Do they/will they go outside during the day when good weather comes?

Both neutered fluffy.Kitten is an indoor cat and has never been out and stray is very reluctant to go back to the great outdoors .I coax her outside if the day is nice and I am pottering about with washing outside etc but she sticks her nose out the door for a few minutes and scurries back inside.
The sleeping in each others beds is fairly new but they have always eaten from each others bowls.Is it a good sign when they break bread together share food bowls ,beds etc? !

Well I wouldn't want to go out either if the weather was like it is currently.

I think it is a good sign - looks like their physical sensitivity to each other's presence is shrinking a bit. Your problem is that you have an 8 month old full-of-beans kit who hasn't got a lot to do due to circumstances and can't work off her surplus energy except on your bigger cat. (Thank Heaven for some small mercies, though - if it wasn't your big cat it would be you, or the curtains, or the china, or....or.....or.....)

If they'd had a long term mother/daughter relationship, bigger cat would likely be able to quell the youngster with a stern word or a quick swipe. As it is, she sounds as if she's disciplining it (as opposed to fighting) but maybe not as emphatically as she could if she'd known the kit from birth.

I'd be tempted to persevere and let them get on with it if no blood is being drawn. Your kitten is just at the worst age for hell-raising (loads of new muscle and energy but precious little sense and few boundaries) and should hopefully start to calm down soon-ish.

Could you maybe try playing with them even more - and maybe get in some foraging toys as well if they eat any dried food?

Sounds like it isn't too bad if fur is not flying and no one is bleeding. I'd let them work it through with plenty of places to sit up high and glare at each other and lots of treat balls and brain toys. Will the kitten be able to go out later? Once they are in out in better weather they will have plenty to take energy out on.

The kitten might be a great hunter once she is lose and that'll give the lovely stray a calmer life.

My two rescues are quite happy together now, though introduced a year apart. One male one female though. I think females fight for dominance so once they have sorted out who is boss it should calm. My poor old male hunting softy knows the Tortie girl rules here now, but he is so soppy and out all the time fetching me birds and mice he doesn't care who is boss indoors really as long as there is food.

Well a quick google suggests 8month cats in human years is 15yo. Aren't 15 yo adolescents annoying?.

Can the kitten go out to let off steam? Come spring the worlds teeming with things a lot more interesting to her than scrapping.

Thanks to all of you.I will persevere definitely and yesterday funnily enough I found the big cat tucked up in kittens bed and kitten asleep on a blanket that was lying next to the bed,right next to her.They were like this for an hour and a half.
Mm,had made the decision to keep kitten indoors as we are on a really busy main road..thats the only reason really.Cats always being scraped off the road.I wouldn't even attempt to keep big cat in seeing as how she is used to being outdoors but she doesn't seem to want to go out at all since she has been lodging here.
Yes , fluffy 15 yr old teens are annoying..I have 14 and 16 yr old dcs also and now a teenage cat also .
Thanks again to you all..I really appreciate it

Best of luck and let us know how they get on.

(You may find that big cat's views on outside change once the spring arrives fully and there are sunny days with more a-doing outside. Just be prepared.)

I don't think it sounds too bad, to be honest, hissing and swiping rather than full blown fights with yowling and posturing? The kitten will eventually calm down and start fewer fights.

I have one year old boy and 16 year old nastycat, who hates everyone and everything, who hiss and swipe all day. To be honest I can see that he is very annoying (his brother has sadly disappeared, so he has nobody to play with but her and us) and don't blame her for hissing, he brings it on himself. On the positive side she has recently been seen playing with toys, which I think is his influence.

Get a feather on a string toy (Da Bird, to be precise) and tire them out.

PS - sleeping together (in effect) is actually very good. It's a sign of confidence in the other cat. (If they thought the other cat was an enemy, they wouldn't relax that much.)

I'm sure I read somewhere that as long as there's no tail biting then it's more a playful fight. My two swat and dive on each other all the time. Plenty of hissing too when food is involved. I wouldn't say they get on like the best of friends but they do tolerate each other. There was a point when they refused to be in the same room together.

They still won't sit close together, but at least now they'll sit in each other's company. 6 weeks is still early days from my experience. Things should get better with time. :)

The 8 month old is a teenager and brings with him lots of pent up moodiness, selfishness and irrational behaviour.

The other cat is a two year old - so lots of energy and zest for life.

My current two are 2 and 3, they regularly 'rough-house' e.g. chase each other around and have full on wrestling competitions. Like yours they are also indoor cats so it's one way they burn off their pent up energy.

Peak times for this are just after breakfast and just after dusk, but any time of the day is fine too. There's sometimes a bit of hissing (no growling though) and lots of swiping and wagging of tails. I have a dominant cat but Thicko cat gets it in his head that he'd like to be in charge, not realising that he's fat and slow, whereas the t'other one is half his size and ninja like! It is funny to watch.

They share a food bowl, take it in turns to sleep in different spots. It is not usual to find them sleeping on my bed about a foot apart.

Totally are totally normal. When you go out, don't keep them apart - they'll just sleep anyway. As long as they are not injuring one another (a bit of fluff is okay), then I think they are just being very young cats.

Both cats need their own space, it only needs to be small but somewhere only one cat at a time can get.

Cats' are territorial so they both need some territory each, kittn has had the whole house until now so you need to get some space for the new arrival. The top of a wardrobe can be a good place.

You also, ideally need a way for cat to cross kitten territory without disturbing her. You know how cats do the uppy downy walk on fences? That's them crossing territory, they like to be high. In a house you can sometimes do this with shelves / furniture.

Flash points tend (maybe not in your case) to be exits/entrances.

You might see new arrival as not being the aggressor but kitten does not. Kitten sees a strange cat coming into kitten territory and trying to take over.

Imagine you advertised a room for a lodger and then found the lodger sleeping in your bed - that's how kitten feels.

They will probably get to the point where they will tolerate each other, but cats becoming friends is pure luck.

Thanks everyone.I will let you all know how it goes.

Hi everyone.I just wanted to let you all know that the two cats are finally getting on ok as you all predicted they would.It took a while but they sort of ignore each other now and have settled down.They still chase each other and seem hostile at times but overall things are very calm and peaceful.
Thank you all again for the invaluable advice .

That's good to know, Apple. Well done you for being so patient with them.