Just paid vets bill for one chemo treatment - £1,171

[LimitIsUp]

So my dog needs chemo to shrink a lesion and has had his first treatment. There were some additional items on there - some cardiac pills because they think he has sub clinical DCM and also testing for taurine levels (again re the DCM)

I have to pay this bill in its entirely since our insurance covers us for £4,000 per annum but that has already been exceeded by CT scans and other diagnostics etc (and next 12 month period isn't until November)

We have at least 3 more similar bills in the pipeline (Chemo every 3 weeks for 4-6 treatments)

Given the cost, do most people not pay for Chemo and opt for pain relief then PTS? I ask because I was stunned by the amount. We do okay for money but the costs are scary. We will pay for the whole course of treatment but Christ on a bike.....

(I am also more than a little fucked off that 20% VAT is added to vet bills)

I would (and have) PTS my much loved cat in similar circs.

It’s un affordable, it’s unlikely to extend life all that much, and it gives them a horrible quality of life. It’s not something I wanted her to go through, even before you get to the cost.

It would really depend for me. My DDog does not cope well at the vets, but if it was going to cure him or extend his life by a year or more, I would get him the treatment. If it would just give him a few months I couldn't put him through the stress of going to the vets. He's insured but if costs became an issue we'd be more likely to PTS unless he was likely to be cured I think.

I get that - and sorry, it was probably an intrusive question. However a complicating factor for my dog is that he hasn't go cancer so its not life threatening, however he will completely lose the use of his leg if the lesion is not shrunk and amputation of a forelimb in a large breed is not the best

And because its a very very rare lesion they are not 100% sure that chemo will work on it

Gosh that is so difficult. I love my girl but I don't think we could do it - she is insured but there is a limit like yours each year. The cost of treatment and how much the average insurance limit each year seem to be getting quite far apart.

I know someone who paid £10k+ for operations and chemo so that code does not surprise me.

This is why good insurance is a must so decisions can be taken on treatment excluding money being a factor.

code *cost

Your vet should have told you the cost before you went ahead. Mine makes a point of that.
Not been faced with that, but my DDog did need surgery for cancer and the vet was clear that chemo was never for a cure unlike for humans.
I am sorry you are facing this. But yes, I think pain relief would be the way I would go.

Gosh this is hard OP. I'd probably PTS, even with forelimb amputation, what kind of quality of life would your ddog have? (If it came to amputation).

My previous dog had lymphoma. We opted to not have treatment because of many reasons. Cost was one factor, but mostly it was because he would be very unwell during treatment, have a miserable quality of life and the chemo might give him another 6 months if it was successful. So we opted to let him enjoy however long he had left and then made the heart breaking decision when it was his time to go. He had another great year of life and then left us peacefully as soon as it was time. I don't regret it and would do the same for current dog or my cats

Isn't in unethical to put an animal through chemo? As a human you understand that essentially poisoning yourself will hopefully make you better in spite of the awful side effects. All a dog knows is they feel horrible. Personally I would PTS in your situation although it seems terrible to exchange a life for the sake of one leg but there is no way I could afford it or I would put an animal through it if I could.
Sorry OP, you have my sympathy x

As with PP I too would probably opt for pain relief as well but that is because our dog does not do well with going back and forth to the vets (long story) even though we could afford it and have insurance.

People don’t do chemo for lots of reasons, but also, people will have more insurance than 4K as well.

But yes, I’m sure there are some people who do have to choose to have a pet PTS because they can’t afford treatment.

“It’s un affordable, it’s unlikely to extend life all that much, and it gives them a horrible quality of life. It’s not something I wanted her to go through, even before you get to the cost.”

This is not a you’re wrong, because I’m sure you absolutely made the right decision for your cat, but chemo for cats shouldn’t give them a horrible quality of life it’s at much lower doses than they’d give a person pro rata for that reason and depending on what they have it can extend life.

I had a cat on chemo for 5 years, she did great and the estimate without it was max 6 months.

Like I said, I’m not saying you were wrong, because different things have different protocols and outcomes and each pet is different. My current cat I would choose not to treat for the same thing because the vet visits involved would stress her out so much that it would be unfair on her for instance- But not all chemo is harsh and doesn’t extend life.

In my experience it’s about 50:50 between owners who pursue chemo and owners who pursue palliative care. Cost is something that comes into it hugely - both ‘can I afford it’ and ‘does this represent good value’, I.e the treatment is going to achieve something (a cure, stopping pain, longer survival time) that is worth paying X amount of money for - that’s a really personal decision and there’s rarely an absolute right or wrong answer in medicine.

In terms of costs, if you haven’t already, get written prescriptions for any medication that’s given at home as this can be cheaper; also your vet may have a ‘pet health scheme’ which gives money off other treatments (for instance ours is 10% off everything, which is worthwhile if you are having lots of treatment.)

Sending best of wishes to you and your dog, I hope the treatment is successful.

You say a large breed, OP. Costs are usually higher the bigger the dog. What sort of size are we talking? If you don't want to name the breed, can you give a comparable one?

I actually work in a vets and work with several oncologists.
Lots of people choose this. ( maybe with bigger insurance limit)
But unless it's curative, i don't agree with it.

But thats just my opinion. Have plenty of collegues that still go for palliative care

If this treatment would lead to a full and healthy life I would 100% continue the treatment. If the chance of sucess was low or it wouldn't provide a happy life afterwards I would consider pts

Chemo doesn't affect ddogs like it does humans I was assured. Ddog had surgery for mammary cancer and it cost 2 k. If she had needed further treatment we would have had to pts. The cost of surgery was manageable but nothing more... She had a year then got a brain tumour and was pts. No regrets though. An extra year was a real privilege..
I know a small ddog just had a front leg off due to cancerous lump . Sorry your ddog isn't suitable op.

Age of the dog would be a huge factor for me and potential outcome of course, and then the dog's potential quality of life following treatment.

My dog is 11 years old. I wouldn't put her through Chemo, or any other hard treatment.

I would feel differently if she were a young dog and Chemo was likely to add a longish time to her life.

Chemo for dogs doesn't have the same side effects it does for humans, so don't worry too much about that side of things. It tends to be a lot milder than human side effects due to a much lower dosage used.

Dogs with an amputated limb can also have an absolutely fine quality of life - they learn to adapt quite quickly. There's a three-legged dog around the corner who bounds around quite happily! But obviously you've considered that too.

It's a very personal decision I think. If DDog had similar now at age 8 and there was the option of chemo that would give her good quality of life for a few years now to come and allow her to retain her limb then yes, I would find the money. If it was an older dog with cancer who was unlikely to live more than 12 months anyway, I probably wouldn't.

If my insurance didn't cover the cost of treatment I couldn't pay that amount.

We had a dog with cancer and we didn't pursue surgery or chemo. He was old and I didn't think it was fair on him really,

I guess putting the money aside, we all need to work out whether the treatment is improving quality of life enough to justify putting them through it.

I know this doesn't help you now, but 4K is a really low annual limit for treatment. I think ours is 10k per year per condition. Expensive but so worth it.

I always opt for whatever is easiest for the dog even if it's harder for me. They don't understand being left at the vet, don't understand that suffering in the short term might or might not extend their life, etc.

I feel for you OP. In 2016, we took our Labrador to the OOH vet as she suddenly became very unwell over the Easter weekend. She was seen, triaged, bloods etc transported to another vets and diagnosed with blood cancer, she was in intensive care, had one infusion of chemo and then sadly we decided to pts as she was so unwell and clearly suffering.

The bill for 4 days, came to £8,000.

We had to pay it and then battle the insurance (who never paid out).

I’m not sure what I’m saying other than the costs will quickly spiral so beware of that. 😢😔

However a complicating factor for my dog is that he hasn't go cancer so its not life threatening, however he will completely lose the use of his leg if the lesion is not shrunk and amputation of a forelimb in a large breed is not the best

Argh, that's a really difficult choice. Sorry to hear you are going through this, OP. I wouldn't do chemo to extend life expectancy with cancer, but can understand why you'd do it in this situation.

The vets should give you an estimate ahead of any treatment. Make sure they are aware you are self-funding & costs are a concern - there is often the "gold standard" treatment but sometimes certain things can be skipped / done less often to reduce costs.

For example, we're running very close to our £7k annual limit at the moment. Ideally we'd see our specialists and run some blood tests before reducing DDog's medication, but as he is clinically well & not showing symptoms we gave a telephone update & reduced without doing the tests.

The chemo drugs can probably only be supplied by the vet but you may be able to get a written prescribed and buy other drugs online to save money. One of DDog's medication would have been over £700 a month directly from the vet, but they recommended buying online and it was just over £200 a month instead (as the big online pharmacies can negotiate far better rates from the pharmaceutical companies).

My ndn paid nearly £10k for chemo for their dog and it was still eventually (too late imo) put to sleep.

I would consider very carefully if I was holding on for my benefit or my dogs.