Wrong dog for us/ wrong family for dog?

[MorrisPrancer]

This is in a similar vein to another thread on here but I really do need some advice and/ or slap round the head! We've recently re- homed a border collie after his previous owners moved house, we're his 4th home.
He initially settled in brilliantly and seems to be a happy dog. He does need some training with lead work, car chasing and recall however we are currently working on this.

The problem issue with him is that twice he has shown aggression towards the children- snarled in dd1s face and snapped at dd2s hand, no contact was made. We were all shocked and I am scared that he could do something worse in the future although there has been no further signs since this happened last week.

I guess I'm looking for advice as to what we should do, rehome or train. In the meantime he is currently on the waiting list of various rehoming shelters but they are all at least 8 weeks long! The previous owners will not have him back and we know no- one that will have him. He is currently crated when the kids and dog are around each other. We are all so sad about the situation and are torn with what we should do.

After reading this he sounds like a nightmare dog but he really isn't. We don't want to give up on him but we want the safest thing for our family- the kids are 2 and 4 years old by the way!

He was a friend of a friend who moved into rented accommodation and couldn't take him. His sister had him but is a single working mum so was unable to cope. Before this is history is sketchy and unknown. Dog would have ended up in a pound if we hadn't taken him Both myself and DH said that we could never do that to him as he doesn't deserve it. After reading on here what happens to some dogs then Facebook/ gumtree is also out of the question. Wish we had a crystal ball so we can see if he turns out to to be the family dog we thought or if he'd do better in a home with no kids.

Collies do nip and snarl. It's what they do. It doesn't necessarily make them agressive.

It is in instinct bred into them so they can do what they are meant to - herd animals. When stressed, or pushed by unfamiliar circumstances they can revert to this instinct. It doesn't mean they are going to savage anyone. The instinct can be redirected to toys with training.

It sounds as though your dog is very stressed and covering it quite well, in the main.

Google collie behaviour and do some reading - they are gorgeous dogs BUT do need specific input from owners.

Second what daisy says. They are a snappy breed. Mine will react, but not actually bite if someone startles him.

Basics - they are very eye focussed. Everything a collie does is eye contact driven. Teach the children not to barge into his comfort zone face on. Actually, generally speaking it is best not to barge into his comfort zone full stop. Call him over, let him make the decision as to how much contact he wants.

The toy idea is a good one. Mine is bomb proof if someone is holding a stick. He just focusses in on it doesn't give a toss about anything else.

I wouldn't write him off as a family dog, just give him lots of space to settle. He'll be nervous, the environment is new to him, and young children are remarkably noisy and unpredictable. They will be freaking him out a bit.

Get a good trainer/behaviourist to come assess the dog and give you some professional advice. If you have any aggression worries about a dog, a forum can never give you the answer. The trainer can tell you whether there is a problem and whether the problem can be solved through training; you can then decide if you are the right home for him.

Thanks everyone for the advice, wanted an outsiders viewpoint- clearly an Internet forum won't be making our mind up for us but it's still useful to hear others opinions. We actually had a behaviourist come over this afternoon who assessed dog- she was very taken with him, he put on the charm big time! He's actually a very calm dog, pretty much the opposite of a typical collie the behaviourist said. She said that we were doing everything right so far in regards to him and the girls- he has a safe space, they play ball outside, leave him alone when asked. Hopefully the nip and the snarl was the dog settling into a totally new way of life and finding out where he is in our family I.e at the bottom! Me and DH will be talking about this for while I think.....

We have working collies, it's what they do. Depending on where he's come from, his working instinct may be really strong.

Once he's got these initial issues out of the way, are there any local classes he can do - obedience, agility? Or if the herding instinct is really, really strong, how about some trialling?

He wasn't a working dog as such, just sat outside on the original owners smallholding left to his own devices. There's no nipping of ankles or bottoms or chasing/ rounding up behaviour of the kids at all. Not sure he has much of a working instinct- he likes to chill with his ball instead or have a snooze. Once we've cracked lead walking then classes are the way to go to socialise him and train him further. I think actually we've got a lovely dog but need to work through his ishoos, looks like it's going to be a happy ending in the Morris household

I've come late to this thread thank god, because I would have said something harsh that the OP didn't deserve But speak to Wiccaweys. Here Give them a call and get THEM to give you a behavioural. They are one of the leading UK Border Collie rescues and will give superb advice. They always phone back, although it may take a few days. It sounds like you are already heading in the right direction. :)

Do NOT whatever you do, subscribe to the Cesar Milan fucking tosser school of training. Make everything reward based, rather than dominance theory based because it's outdated crap. Make him use his brain - collies are fab for teaching "stuff" to and it helps tire them out mentally.

4 homes is tough for any dog, even more so for a "sensitive" breed like a collie. If he is focused on his ball, use that to distract him, especially with cars. Make it more appealing than chasing cars. Many collies are ball obsessive and selectively deaf to the point of you wanting to die with embarrasement - I've never forgotten the time my girl managed to break up a league cup football final at the local playing fields because she buggered off and grabbed the football!

Good luck!

Border collies are not great with young children. People think they are the perfect dog just because they are intelligent and obsessive about loyal to their owners, but they can be grumpy, snappy and quite anti-social, and I've known BC owners who are the first to admit that.

If he's already had 3 homes before yours then my guess is he has form. Someone may be able to cheer him up but it probably isn't you.

Sorry that sounded more stroppy than I intended - I just meant he may be happier in a household with no children and where he is the sole focus.

Hillywallaby Are you familiar with collies in your day-to-day life or are you going by what other people say, because what you say is not factually correct. Many collies thrive in a home with children, as do many other breeds. It is about matching the dog to the home.

OP - you might find this thread useful. It'll give you a feel for what is possibly going through your dogs head.Here

QuietTiger at the picture of dog stealing football during a match! Was quiet nervous the other day as the local cricket team were playing in the field next to where my dog is walked- had images of him running off with the cricket ball! Thanks for all your further advice, the trainer is totally reward based and is experienced with collies, she's had many off her own. We think we've made the right decision and with further training will come on leaps and bounds. Couldn't open that thread though ...

Oh crumbs

Yy to selective deafness, in our case it's around sheep (yes, he is the worst sheepdog on the planet but he's cute).

Ours vary in temperament completely from the dopey old boy who is DD's best friend, our ditsy 'blond' pup who's dad was a supreme champion but is most likely to lick dd to death rather than round her up, and the top dog who I wouldn't trust an inch around the baby.

I guess the breed has as many personalities as the next one.

I agree with reward training, I've heard of hideous methods of training sheepdogs before but the chap we use is all about rewards and praise. He got our pup working in 15 mins!

Give pooch time to settle, a calm environment and exercise for both his mind and body and then you should see his true colours. Good luck!