Spill the beans on Derren Brown's methods [SPOILERS!!]

[Rusticated]

Inspired by the other thread, but don't want to spoil the experience of anyone who prefers to remain mystified. Personally, I love the bits where he explains how he does something (the fake seance, the gorilla on stage, the 'magical' horse racing bet predictions), but have never seen him live.

Would love to hear people's thoughts on how he pulls things off...?

Personally, I love the bits where he explains how he does something

They're just as much an illusion as the trick itself.

The live stage performances are very, very impressive and very entertaining, I really like the fact that he says everything is a trick, no magic, no psychic powers, just a trick. I've never figured any of them out. Its possible that he has stooges in the audience, which would explain a lot, but it really doesn't seem that way when you are there.

Could you give an example, MrsMiniver? That sounds perfectly plausible. But am I being naive in thinking that he did in fact fully explain the racing bets prediction (started with a huge number of participants, all of whom got allocated a different horse in successive races, so that one person 'won' every single race, and the losers were discarded), all but the final 'surprise', when his bet seemed to be wrong?

I've seen him live a few times, he's utterly brilliant. I participated in one trick with him, so can say for a certainty that I wasn't a stooge! It was only a simple trick, thinking of a number, but I've no idea how he did it.
Penn and teller are great for explanations of more traditional magic tricks - magicians in general rely on people thinking that no one would go to the massively elaborate lengths they have to go to to setup the trick.

I love Derren Brown. I would like to know how he managed to contact deceased relatives at the end of the show last night, and knew information he really shouldn't have known, yet claimed it was all a trick? Just how?!

IIRC he basically says so in one of his books. I can't remember the details, but for instance, we went to one of his shows a few years back. One of his tricks involved getting a member of the audience (selected at random apparently) to choose a newspaper from a selection of that day's papers (Daily Mail, The Times, The Guardian etc etc). They then chose a page number and then a story, then a line, then a word number etc etc. And he'd predicted in a sealed envelope which word they'd choose. Wow!

All very impressive and he explained how he'd did it which was also very impressive (can't remember the details of this). However, I happened to have a copy of the newspaper in question at home and I geekily checked out the page number, and the story in question. The story wasn't on that page. It wasn't on ANY page in the newspaper for that day or any other day for the previous week (I said I was a geek!) So, although his explanation might have been partly true there was also a plain old-fashioned set-up/con at play.

He must have had a bad night, because there was another part of his show which didn't go quite to plan and the explanation just didn't make sense.

Don't get me wrong he's amazing at what he does, but the explanations are never the whole story.

Oh, that's interesting, MrsM. I love that you cynically checked an entire week of newspapers. I suppose it's true that he can assume people are unlikely to go to the lengths you did... Also interesting that something else didn't go to plan.

Ok, I can spill the beans on the deceased relatives as I was up on stage for one of these with Derren.

We all at the beginning of the interval had to write the name of a loved one who had died, their relation to us and some random facts about the person. We folded the bit of paper up and wrote our name on the outside. An assistant came roud with two buckets to collect our papers.

He held one bucket out 95% of the time but he held the other bucket out for a few random people.

As he walked towards the bowl he put one bucket inside the other, tipped papers into the glass bowl and walked off stage........with one bucket with some papers in still.

There was then a 30 min break where I reckon Derren memorised stuff. I do think he has a very impressive memory.

When derren came out he never actually pulled any papers out the bowl, he just looked inside the bowl as if he was looking at the names on the outside of the papers. But I reckon the people who's names he said, their papers weren't in that bowl.

The first thing with the girl on the balcony and the dog name. Two weeks before the show I got one of those "research calls". I never get them as I'm on TPS. I declined to continue the call. I've read a theory that this is Derren's researchers calling. They ask you loads of stuff inc pet names. They would have got your name and number from the venue. They pick people at the front of the balcony/dress circle as they're easy to pick out. I had a front row seat in the circle. So he knows that there is a woman, in an age bracket sat in a certain area of the audience. So when she's still standing after he's done the "I need a woman, with a pet, early 20s, etc.....he knows the one still standing in that area has a dog called X.

Oh, Viva, thank you, that's exactly the kind of experience I was after! How interesting. So, down to old-fashioned research by a team, memory work, and a bit of sleight of hand with buckets...

Though wouldn't audience members who'd got a call in advance of the performance be likely to remember they'd divulged something as personal as pet names if it came up at the DB gig? When did you make the connection?

Agreed on his memory. I was out with a couple of older actors recently and they were showing me their personal techniques for memorising long parts in short periods of time, which was fascinating. (And clearly worked - one of them had to take on a famously difficult one-woman play with only a few days' notice after another actor pulled out because she couldn't learn it, but she did it.)

To be honest I only made the connection afterwards when I read on another forum that this was a theory.

Tickets sell out months in advance and I think my phone call was a coup,e of months prior, certainly a month. Maybe the call goes on and on and the pet name is only a small part of it?

So you forget about that little bit?

Dh also wondered if researchers look online for people with unusual surnames who have bought tickets. See if they have an open fb profile, a blog, etc?

Yes, it would be interesting to see whether DB would gave to change significant elements of his live shows in an Internet-less universe, or one where there was no pre-booking, you just showed up on the night.

No wonder he gets so cross with stage mediums who presumably do similar things to gather information but present it as coming from the 'spirit world', rather than trickery.

Well tickets have just gone on sale for his 2015 tour. Might go again!

I've been to a few of his shows and it always amazes me how everything links back to everything else even though people have seemingly made random choices on the night.

A lot of his stuff is based on cold reading and neuro linguistic programming which psychics also apparently use and why he says he can guess the same things they do.

Re the telephone research - good theory but how does that work with someone who was part of a big booking whose details were never divulged?

He wouldn't pick that person who hadn't divulged details.

He will ask the venue for details of say everyone on the front row on the right side. Someone rings all of them up till someone divulges their dogs name.

They then know the person, where they're sitting, gender, age , dogs name and any other stuff they've asked.

So they say they want a bloke, who's x age, etc. derren will ignore the people at the back, people at the left, etc. he's after a particular person, or maybe one of 2 or 3 incase someone is shy and doesn't stand up. So he knows the person front left stall has a dog called Lulu, a person fron right dress circle has a dog called Ben, etc.

Otherwise why doesn't he just say " can someone with a dogs name stand up". He'd have 40% of the audience stand up and wouldn't be able to do it.

Fascinating!

I do remember one programme he did on tv years ago when he was doing various 'murder mystery' tricks with a group of people. The bit I remember was when he showed the group a board with about 16/20 photos of random people. The photos were laid out in a 4x4 or 4x5 grid pattern, some were colour photos, some black and white. He then asked the group to use their psychic intuition to work out the murder victim by choosing a photo, counting 2 to the right of that photo, go up 1, go diagonally down to the left, etc etc etc. The vast majority of people ended up at the same photo which was supposed to show that they were psychic and had 'tuned in' to the murder victim.

Except it was obvious. I have done some psychology for my degree, and I just knew that most people when asked to choose a random photo would choose one in the middle of the board. I forget the details, but I think of those in the middle, only two were in colour and therefore stood out more than the b&w photos, and one of those colour photos showed a smiling person whereas the other colour photo shown a less appealing face. To me, it was obvious that most people would be drawn to the smiling colour photo in the middle, and would therefore all start at the same place before being directed to the end photo - the 'murder victim'.

This was all later confirmed by DB when he went through explaining all the various tricks he had done. I remember it now because I usually have not a clue how he does his tricks, but this one was obvious to me from the outset.

I still boggle at the Heist programme he did. I have seen it several times and still can't believe the power of suggestion that led perfectly honest and upright citizens to attempt to rob a security van.

But we've gone several times as a big group through work with only the person booking the tickets giving their name and twice someone from our group has been picked (once was my dp and they wouldn't have had his details) and tickets were randomly given out with seats in different parts of the theatre. I'm not saying they don't do it I just struggle to see how in this situation.

read his books - explain it all

H was a volunteer once. tried to outfox DB with his extensive knowledge of NLP and failed

we have seen him 4 times. What you dont see on the TV is his little nervous tick

Love the live shows. Although to me, they always have a boring bit that goes on and on and is a weak part in an otherwise amazing show! One finale we saw, I could never figure out how he did it and I've forgotten the details now. It involved a balloon I think and when it was popped, held the same combination of numbers that had randomly been selected by a group of people. Sounds boring but it was brilliantly executed. Another show had him displaying his unsung talent as an artist. Can't wait for the next one!

Betty in one of his books he talks about the tic and how he uses it to reinforce things he's saying to someone. So he might say something seemingly unconnected, he does his little nod and that reinforces the word he's said in the mind of whoever he's talking to - then he uses that later on.

Did anyone see the explanation he did of the advertising execs coming up with a new logo for a taxidermy (?) shop? They seemed to come up with almost exactly what he had already drawn out of nowhere but when the film was run back you saw all the subliminal suggestions they'd passed on the way there. Love DB!

Can anybody link me to his books please?

Mmmm, don't know. But there's no way he can guess that someone's dog is called Xenia.

Or that someone's gran was bitten by a monkey!

Exactly. So that person would have written on a piece of paper about the monkey biting and he saw that paper in the interval.