Ive completely lost control of my ds’s

[stuckntired]

I honestly dont know what to do anymore. DS1 and DS2 have just turned 15 a few weeks ago and are in year 11 and school are now talking about exclusion. I feel sick even writing that because its GCSE year and things have got so bad. Ive tried everything I can think of and nothing seems to make any difference

DS1 and DS2 are identical twins and they are very close. They dont really have friends apart from each other which used to worry me but now I actually think its making things worse. They are together all the time. They go out together sit in their room together game together and if one gets into trouble the other one is normally there making it worse. They dont seem to have anyone else to answer to really. Its just them

When they started year 7 DS1 was bright and a bit of a smart arse if Im honest. He could be cheeky and answer back but teachers liked him and he was actually interested in his work. He was good at maths and science and I remember being told he had loads of potential. DS2 was always more difficult and has always liked attention. He would mess about for a laugh and get other children going but it wasnt anything that seemed that serious then. They were both annoying at times but I never thought we would get to this

It got worse in year 8 then worse again in year 9. More detentions more arguments more emails home. DS2 was usually the one starting things and DS1 would sometimes tell him to stop but then he started joining in instead. I kept thinking they would grow out of it. Now they are in year 11 and they are both a nightmare in school. They talk over teachers make noises shout things out laugh when they are told off and refuse to do basic things. They argue about everything and take up so much teacher time. There have been detentions and isolations and now they are talking about exclusion

They both walk out of lessons if they dont like what they are being told. They have refused to hand their phones over and DS2 has sworn at teachers. DS1 has started doing it too. They wind each other up and then laugh about it. If one gets sent out the other will usually start making comments or laughing. They have been put in isolation more than once. The school keeps saying they cant keep taking teachers away from lessons to deal with them and I do understand that but I dont know how Ive ended up with two boys who think this is funny. They dont seem to care about consequences at all

DS1 is what really gets me because he was the bright one. He doesnt even do his homework anymore. If he gets good feedback or a good grade he used to get really pleased with himself but now DS2 makes comments about him being a teachers pet or being up the teachers arse and all sorts. DS1 used to get annoyed but now he laughs with him. If a teacher says something positive about DS1 DS2 will make some comment about him thinking hes clever. He seems to hate his brother doing well and I think DS1 has started avoiding doing anything that makes him stand out because of it. Its horrible because I know he can do better

I have asked school if they can put them in different classes because I think they need separating but they are both bottom set for a lot of subjects so its not really possible. Moving one up would mean putting him in a set he isnt working at and school cant just move him up to separate them. They also picked exactly the same options for GCSE which Im now thinking was probably because they wanted to be together all the time. At the time I didnt think anything of it. On Friday they had a supply teacher who didnt know them and apparently they kept swapping places and saying they were each other. She couldnt work out who was who and eventually had to call the HOY because they wouldnt stop. They thought it was hilarious

At home they are awful as well. If I ask them to do anything I get why or you cant make me and then it can go straight into swearing. They leave plates upstairs and rubbish everywhere and neither of them will do anything unless I ask over and over. They stay up gaming when they have been told to go to bed. If I take one phone the other one suddenly says its his or hides it. They both vape even though I keep taking them away. A few months ago I found out DS2 was smoking cigarettes as well. He denied it at first then basically said it was only a few. When they are grounded they just go anyway. They have climbed out of a downstairs window before because I wouldnt let them out

They are also causing trouble around the estate. They go out together and there have been complaints about banging on doors throwing eggs kicking bins shouting through letterboxes riding electric bikes where they shouldnt and going into peoples gardens. They have thrown stones at a garage door and apparently filmed some of it. I have defended them before because I thought people were blaming them for things other kids had done but Ive since found out they actually were involved in some of it. DS2 seems to enjoy getting a reaction from people and DS1 goes along with it. I dont know why they think this is funny

DS2 and girls is another thing Im really struggling with. He has always liked attention but the things Ive been told recently are not something I can just put down to being immature. He makes comments about girls bodies and has apparently carried on talking to girls after theyve told him to leave them alone. Hes shown messages from girls to other boys and one girl blocked him and he thought it was hilarious. Ive spoken to him about boundaries and consent and he tells me everyone is too sensitive and that it was a joke. DS1 has sometimes been there laughing too. Another thing I found out was DS2 took a girls bag from outside a classroom and passed it to another boy because they thought it was funny watching her look for it. She was crying apparently. I was absolutely horrified

Today I had another phone call from school. DS2 had an energy drink in class and when the teacher tried to take it off him he just walked out. DS1 followed him and they were running around the corridors laughing and refusing to come back. They were both put into isolation for the rest of the week. The problem is theres only one isolation room so school are now trying to work out something else because apparently putting them together defeats the point. They said they need to separate them somehow

Im seriously thinking about trying to move DS1 to another school. I feel like he needs getting away from DS2 before he throws everything away as well. Hes august born so Ive even wondered if I could ask if he could start year 10 again but I dont know if thats completely ridiculous. I know hes 15 and should make his own choices but I honestly think being together constantly is making both of them worse. They have no friends apart from each other and just egg each other on. Ive asked various people for help and dont seem to be getting anywhere. Im starting to worry about what theyll be like in a few years. Ive actually had a nightmare about them both being in prison which sounds dramatic but thats honestly where my head is at now

Poor you OP this sounds like an absolute nightmare. In your shoes I might go to the GP and ask for a referral to a family therapist. I was an absolute nightmare of a rebellious teen and what worked for me was being kicked out of school and being unable to get a job other than in local co-op. That made me sit up and realise I needed qualifications and went back to college and ended up doing v well. They may be clever and bored as I was. I do think having two of them adds a very difficult aspect. I take it there’s no dad in the picture to help you?

Any chance they are dyslexic?

It’s not dramatic to imagine they may end up in prison OP. I’m afraid things needed to have been dealt with much earlier on instead of waiting for them to grow out of it / grow up. You needed help/support then.

You don’t say who else lives at home (is their father on the scene?) or any ACEs (adverse childhood experiences) that may have impacted their development, neither do you mention any neurodivergence that may be impacting their understanding (eg ADHD children can be approx 5 yrs behind in emotional development). Have school sat down with you to discuss any of that? Any referral for Early Help? Social services involved? You do not have to answer on here, but it may help any future poster give advice.

I’m sad to say that support can be hard to get as there’s not enough out there. This may mean your DTs have to learn the hard way, that their actions have consequences and go through expulsion with the Local Authority thinking about where to place them for education (eg a PRU). Yes, they risk their GCSEs.

It does not appear they have respect (or even love?) for you. You should be able to control internet access at home and if you pay their phone bills, that is also something you have control over. You do not need to accept their treatment of you. If however you feel standing your ground with them would place you in a vulnerable position or risk of harm, please seek urgent help to protect yourself.

Im sorry my post isn’t more positive- working in a primary school I see this start to play out in the upper years where parents start to struggle with behaviour and whilst things can be turned around quickly with the right support (usually coordinated through school and specialist services) action is needed then as by secondary they can reject any kind of parental support.

Im so sorry your going through this. And with two of them aswell. Im going through same but with just one child and thats almost unbearable so I cant imagine how you feel.
Unfortunately for me I have got to the point where I feel like giving up. Ive done everything I can to help. I am supportive of the school. And hes started to make me look like a fool. I have excused a lot of his behaviour and its got us nowhere.
The worst was he was very verbally abusive to a female member of staff last week and on Friday they suspended him for 3 days for vaping on school grounds. He thinks this is great as now gets 3 days off and doesnt have to go to school. So its a reward. I cant supervise him all day so hes sitting with his feet up at home no doubt.
I really hope in ten years from now he will look back and feel guilty for what hes putting me through and live independently but at this rate he will either be a NEET or in prison.

I must say I have noticed more and more of these threads on here lately and on other social media. Im just glad to know im not alone

I’d be tempted to move them both to different schools and have them both restart year 10 as they have pissed away this time round - but I suspect they would just start truanting together and at least you know where they both are now.