How dysfunctional does this sound?

[coffeerevelsrule]

I am just after some perspective after some incidents over the summer with me and my two teens (19 and 17).

We have a loose system of taking it in turns to choose activities while away. DS2 can be very stubborn and driven by what he sees on TikTok. He refuses suggestions for his 'turn' and we end up doing something none of us really wants and is quite 'meh'. DS1 is very pissed off and calls ds2 a 'little prick.' Ds2 flatly denies being influenced by TikTok and digs his heels in, while giving as good as he gets to ds1. It all kind of works out in the end but the feeling is we would have had a better time if ds2 had listened to suggestions.

There are a couple of similar incidents while abroad. The worst one for me once home is they are both obsessed with being in the front seat of the car. For a while when much younger I banned them both for a year as it was such a nightmare. Now they take turns but it is still a source of contention. This week it was a multi-leg journey to visit extended family and I could sense it brewing between them over the fucking front seat. After a night in a hotel with a few journey stages ahead I set out who would be in the front seat and when before we got in the car. All seemed fine. They are 19 and 17!!!

Leg one ds1 was in the front. All fine and ds1 and I were chatting. Then ds2 suddenly pipes up that he's checked on Google Maps and he's been wronged and done out of time in the front and it's wrong. There ensues an argument between the two of them as we drive into a city of great sentimental import to me that I haven't visited in years since the death of a much-loved relative, as they are aware. I feel like just jumping out and abandoning the car. We park in a carpark and argue in the lift. I told ds2 all he cares about is getting his own way at all costs and he's selfish through and through. He is hurt and starts crying. We get back in the car and leave.

At this point ds1 is in the back with ds2 (as he chose when we left the carpark) and telling him I said something hurtful because I was upset and therefore ds2 should understand that I didn't mean what I said. I think this is true and say as much. DS1 points to a situation when ds2 hit out verbally at him in anger in a similar way and he, ds1, recognised that and didn't retaliate. He told ds2 he should do similar. DS2 is saying I and everyone hates him and crying. DS1 trying to reason with him. Eventually I apologised and ds2 accepted it and we moved on.

But I feel sad. It feels family holidays are coming to an end and we are just dysfunctional. If anyone has any feedback on these interactions it would be great. I'm an only child and want to feel they both get on, and they often do, but things like this make me doubt it.

Actually I wouldn't have put just DS2 out of the car, I'd put them both out at the first sign of trouble and tell them they need to make their own way. Tell them before you leave the house that this will happen and stick to it. They are both old enough to join the army!

These are both old enough to be parents solely responsible for a child. What on earth are they going to do in the big wide world if they’re arguing about the front seat and sniping at each other at their ages?! It sounds like you’ve set up a deeply entrenched golden child/black sheep dynamic to boot. God help future DILs coming into this mess.

I have boys. At 19 and 17 they were nothing like this. DS1 was off with friends for holidays and DS2 not long after.
It all sounds rather…..unusual.
Are they like this around their dad?

Well this has made me feel shit overall and I kind of wish I hadn't posted. Obviously no one else's kids ever argued or did anything wrong over the age of 15 and everyone else handles every situation perfectly with their kids. With one or two exceptions there's very little support here and a lot of dismissive criticism. Oh well.

Mine are younger but have similar dynamics, they do sometimes say nasty things to each other, I sometimes say things I regret and show my emotions to them which is apparently a big no no on mumsnet. I often feel we are dysfunctional, but like someone else said, a lot of people are a bit dysfunctional in one way or another. Sorry you feel worse after posting!

‘Kids?’ Don’t be silly. You asked for experiences and thoughts and were given them. You posted because you suspect this isn’t normal young adult behaviour and most people have confirmed that.
Change your mindset and wake up. I suspect this is the tip of the iceberg.

My 2 teens (similar ages) do the car thing. And it's also about music ( he is also not into the same music as me- because he's 16) I wonder if you've got into a situation where because you have more in common with DS1 both of you inadvertently are ganging up on DS2 ( or it feels like that to him)? I have a bit of this with my 2. I took both of them to London and then to another city abroad over the summer. DS1 and I are real city people, so when I asked DS2 to choose something to do and he said 'what is there to do here?' after going to 2 of the great European cities, we were a bit incredulous! But he will spend hours in a wood, and went on a week's camping in the Peak district which was apparently the ' most fun thing ever' but is my idea of hell. I felt bad dragging him round cities so we went to the zoo where he could be around a bit of nature and he was much happier. Maybe just do what he wants to do once in a while and tell DS1 to like it or go elsewhere. He's 19. He doesn't have to do everywhere with you both.

I'm sorry you feel like it hasn't been helpful to post but I think actually the helpful take away for you should be your older teenagers are acting like children and maybe a proper calm conversation with them about it might be needed. This type of bickering about the front seat etc is not normal for their age

Thanks @Messedupmyusernameagain - a lot of what you say does resonate and I do have more in common with ds1, He has a lot of interests while ds2 is more of a typical teen - which is absolutely fine and lovely and not a criticism of him at all - but just how it is. However, I do think sometimes ds1 feels I over-compensate ds2 for this sometimes and I am sure there is something in that too. Basically, over the years I have tried to cut myself in two being fair and making sure they are both happy on holiday and I have loved it but it's been hard too, which is why some of the comments that basically imply I'm shit and they're shit for their ages have upset me. We do split up and do different things while we're away when it's convenient and the amount of time I've spent in museum cafes with ds2 over the years having treats and playing word games while we wait for ds1 to finish is something else. And, yes, both wanted to come away this year and we had a great time overall. Neither have had any interest in pools or beaches for a long time so holidays always require planning and thought for us! A lot of the time it is actually them chatting and walking together and me on my own, which is fine too, lovely even. I know ds2 was upset when ds1 said he probably won't come on a big holiday next year as he's hoping to work and go away with friends - it's not like they hate each other.

Someone asked if they're like this with their dad. I think they have their moments but both have said many times that they express a lot more with me than with him and they do very little and just tend to put up. Also, he hasn't got a car!

It's hard when they are so different to don things both would like. I have three same dad issue. Their dad is more i to nature, cycling etc like DS2 but for lots of reasons he's also useless and doesn't take them away so it's all on me. I felt a bit bad that he declared overdramatically that he was ' tired of big city life!' We live in a big city! I told him I'd try and visit him at the University of the Highlands and Islands or whatever remote middle of nowhere he decides to live!

He will be feeling sensitive because at your own admission when it gets ti
his turn of choosing something you and his brother try and persuade him to something else. That’ll make him feel wrong and odd and out of place.

Yes, he was being a dick over the time in front seat. But if he already feels hard done by this will be things he’s focus on.

However your ds sound close. When the chips were down they sat together and talked. dS1 comforted his
younger brother.

Id have said “no one is sitting up front until we’ve done 3 journeys with no arguing” years ago.