DD (13) and awful attitude - what to do?

[CocktailQueen]

When she's home she's in her room. All attempts to get her to come down and socialise are rebuffed. She comes down for tea and that's it.

And the way she talks to me - OMFG. Made me cry this morning.

Going to talk to her when she gets in from school - but what sanctions? Lack of phone? I don't want her to see socialising with us as a 'sanction' But she's so selfish - we do everything for her.

She does no chores round the house (she has a long school day and is at grammar so has a lot of homework so we are facilitatung that, I suppose). She's nasty to her brother, she's dismissive to of us - I think she's ashamed of us, which horrifies me.

Everything is eye rolling; she doesn't believe a word I say; doesn't agree with me on anything; her tone is just horrible. Have pulled her up on it many times and she says sorry but it doesn't change anything.

Help, please.

I would sit down with her, no distractions & have an honest talk with her. Tell her what you'd like her to do & how that's going to happen. For example when she comes home from school, you'd she can spend time in her room but when she comes down for tea, from that moment onwards is family time only.

As for the eye rolling I get that from my DD now. For some reason I think teens tend to have this sarcastic air about them. Good luck OP!

I don't think you can make her socialise with you but there is no excuse for rudeness. The best sanction I have found is access to the WiFi.

But is it normal for her to sit in her room all evening by herself???

In my experience teenagers do spend a lot of time in their rooms. It can take a specific thing to get them out - the days of just being together are gone for a while!
Can you find some common TV just to spend some time together? Ds and I both like The Apprentice and we have made it a bit of a ritual thing- hot choc, cake, a good gossip. Or try an activity you both like?
Quality better to aim for that quantity at this age I think.

I agree with George. It's very normal for teens to spend their entire day in their room, they're either in their room or out with friends, I'm not sure I've heard of a family that doesn't at least have it like that to some extent, unless the kids are forced to spend time with family, which is never good. I would say find a mutual activity as George suggested, find a TV show you both enjoy or set out to do family things at weekends or in holidays, but make sure it's something she wants to do. Good luck x.

(Imagine a David Attenborough voice here)

Eye rolling is very common teenage behaviour, I would ignore.
Spending a lot of time in their room is also very normal, unless of course there are other teenagers hanging around in the area, in which case they will congregate in said room making, what is generally known as the "hilarious, manically-giggling call"

The only way to temp them out is bribery by enticing them with some food or a promise of some shite appropriate TV.

Another very good tip is to NEVER embarrass them in front of anyone. This just means don't breathe or say a single word when you are with them in public.

Good luck, they grow out if it eventually

If you turn off all means of communication, you might find she is more interested in being sociable with family.
But, it is a teenager thing - however, that doesn't excuse rudeness and that should be punished.
Yes to sitting her down when things are calm and discussing.

We are lucky enough to have a fire. I keep the house very cold with a lovely fire in the living room.

My DD (13 in Dec) can be exactly the same. She can be very dismissive of my opinions and of me in general at times. Other times everything is fine. It very much depends on her mood. I have learnt to ignore the small stuff (eye rolling) but pick up on the rudeness etc..

You can't make them want to be with you, I have now accepted this - was hard as DH works away during the week and I loved having DD around, over the last couple of years, but now she generally doesn't want to spend time with me. She spends a lot of time either in her bedroom or in our playroom. I will call her downstairs if I feel she has been up in her room too long - but she tends to then go into the playroom but at least that is open plan..

She does however come and sit with me to watch certain tele programmes that I have recorded or at the moment watches I'm a Celebrity every night as we are both hockey mad (Sam Quek).

I'm enjoying having her back but when anything goes wrong I get the sharp end of her tongue. I do think a lot of this is hormonal.

I am in the same position with DS.
He is the youngest of three and is just plain nasty. He has a horrible temper and the last couple of days has referred to me on a number of occasions as a 'goon'.
He is dismissive and is also a lover of his room. It takes a deep breath etc to go and convince him to shower or get ready for school [which he hates].
He has ASD like my older son which means he takes biligerence etc to all new levels......
What makes it worse is that I am a teacher..... quite hard to explain I feel bullied by my own 12 year old.

Love the fire idea Claraschu .

Our router is old and our teen DDs can't get wifi in their bedrooms, so they have to sit in the lounge with us if they want wifi ...... I'm keeping it that way until after GCSEs at least.

Reading this with interest because I have a ds 12, who is awful at the moment.
All of the above. Doesn't want to engage with us at all.

I read that teenagers are like this. I read that they have to 'fall away' from you, before they , presumably in their 20's realise that you actually aren't that bad, and 'come back round'.
But dh and I are actually concerned that if we aren't careful, there will BE no actual relationship LEFT between me and ds, dh and ds.

Oblomov that's exactly how I feel, my "relationship" with dd is completely eroding
See my other current thread about her lying etc etc

I am in same boat however as mine have a busy week of activities after school a mobile phone and a debit card all facilitated by me and DH. It can and has all stopped, as being part of the family is getting on with people and moving into society.

We have a no device rule or tv int the bedroom homework is on the table on the laptop.

At the moment we have reached an accord but there is no way we are tolerating constant rudeness if they want alone time then they can have it without the phone etc.

I have found they can hold out for a few days without and continue to be rude. When you politely stand by the sanction it soon dawns on them that this isn't going to be a long term solution.

We had a meeting (without) anger to discuss it and to explain our position and so far it's working. Flouncing off still happens but for a shorter period and the manners have improved

You need to distinguish carefully between actual misdemeanours and behaviour that annoys you personally. Discipline for the former, accept that the latter may be either natural for her age and/or morally neutral.

Wanting to spend the evening in her room is definitely in the latter category. Many teens grow very introverted at this age, or at least develop a strong need for periods of being alone with themselves.

You should tell her off for rude language, unkind remarks and failure to abide by (clearly defined) house rules. Make it clear that she has to adhere to certain standards of common politeness.

But do not take her need to be alone as any kind of sign that your relationship is breaking down- if you do that, you risk the relationship actually breaking down.

Ds went through a phase of stand-offishness between the ages of roughly 10 and 12, but he has gradually come back; at 16 he is a very considerate and thoughtful teenager who shows in various ways that he actually appreciates his family. He still likes to have his alone time but will also pop down for a chat every now and then, or suggest we should watch a film together. Our policy was not to accept any direct rudeness or rule-breaking, but to stay very calm and not show any resentment at his aloofness.

I think it's an age where they really start to realise that you (as parents) are not the keepers of the universe, the fount of all knowledge etc... I remember at the same age my parents (mainly my mum) irritated me beyond measure because she acted like she knew everything but I began to see she really didn't.

Things like (for example) we were learning referencing at school, as in clearly stating your sources, bias, propaganda etc. and so it annoyed me immensely when I began to notice my mum used a lot of "people say.." and "I've heard that...." to prove a point that I didn't agree with, but could not give a source or any backing to it. I had always taken what she said as gospel but I began to realise she had heard some half-baked theory from the hairdresser's daughter and never thought to question it in any way as to its validity. All well and good but don't then try to put it on your 14 yo DD as fact without expecting to be questioned over it and then if you insist it's right, without it being fact, there definitely would be some eye-rolling and (in her eyes) rudeness.

I just wanted to present another POV to help you maybe understand where she's coming from. Obviously I don't know her, but I do remember feeling so annoyed with my parents for various reasons. It's part of growing up and developing. She shouldn't be rude of course though.

*font of all knowledge

Oh and sometimes it's a difference in communication skills.

For example, my mum will start a story in the middle, go forward, go backwards, give the ending and then the beginning and then is annoyed with me that I haven't followed her. I have to patiently untangle the story which annoys both of us. I wish she would give a synopsis and then the beginning, middle and end instead of starting the story with: "So when I spoke to the lady, she said she'd ask..." Me "Ask about what, Mum?" Mum "Well I'd been to M&S first, you know they've got a sale on, 25% off food, you should go I've got a voucher.. " Me "Was the lady in M&S?" Mum (annoyed) "No - in Boots! The lady wasn't AT M&S, she was at Boots! That's where I was when I lost it" etc etc etc etc etc.
Synopsis (I lost my purse in Boots).

the positive side from what Fizzy was saying is that if you manage to stay calm and grown-up about the whole thing, there is a good chance they will come back and see that there was something to be learnt from the old codgers after all

I was listening to ds earlier today, talking to his dad, and was struck by how respectful he sounds and how he kept asking him for his opinion and advice, completely unprompted, as if he really cared about it

and that is not respect that he is putting on to avoid punishment: this is respect that has been earned

couldn't have happened 3 years ago- but this is the attitude that will stay with him, this is what their future relationship will look like

success at last