Straw poll, what do you think is appropriate for 12 yo dd

[perspective]

As name change suggests I desperately need some perspective on what is appropriate in terms of boundaries for a 12 yo girl. She's not my dd, but I have significant caring responsibilities ( I am family and look after her for days at a time). She is a strongwilled girl, looks about 16 but is in Year 8 and is 12 and 3 months.

So, to help me, would you tell me what you would be happy let your 12 yo dd do with respect to:

Sleepovers at friends - e.g.staying over Fri night and Sat night at a friends house.

Make up/clothes - how much, what would you let them wear/not wear.

Facebook etc - how much, what limits, posting pictures etc

Politeness/courtesy to family - e.g. do you sanction shouting?

I probably veer to the too strict end of the spectrum, but for example, I don't think 2 seepovers at the weekend is appropriate. Likewise posting pictures of herself on facebook. Her mum struggles at times and admits she is a handful, and I think it should be reigned in a bit.

Help! I genuinely would be interested in what behaviour/boundaries you think are acceptable.

Should have said - off to work now,will check back later. Thanks.

I have a 12 yo DD.

I let her sleep over at a friend's on Friday or Saturday (not both). She is not in the least interested in boys, so these are girls only events, and parents are always in. there is no question of alcohol yet.

She wears a little mascara, eye shadow and lip gloss when she goes out. It looks very subtle, and not teenage hookerish. Mind you she doesn't look 16, being on the short side.

She has short skirts and tight trousers, which she tends to wear with a hoody. Most of her T shirts have short sleeves at least.Not looking tarty is a bit of a thing among her friends, and girls who overdo it are laughed at (I am lucky here I know).

No Facebook. It is blocked on the computer she uses. Facebook is the work of the devil, and runs the risk of drawing her into a more risky and adult social scene very quickly. Plus I think you are supposed to be 13+ to use it.

I never let her raise her voice at me without discussing her tone with her, whether she thinks it's appropriate, and whether it was the tone she intended. Luckily she's not yet said anything really rude. I also try not to raise my voice back to her, and to discuss things in a calm adult way. Am not always successful.

These are just my boundaries, and I accept that it is much more difficult if you are not the parent. Still, your house, your rules. What do you think she would do if you tightened up? If she'd run away, and put herself in danger, be careful.

one sleepover is max adn not every weekend-liase with other parent first to amke sure they're there

makeup-bare minimum and not at school
clothes -fashionable without tarty
facebook-limit screen time , no computer in bedroom
politeness-practice what you preach , same with shouting

we speak to each other politely and hardly every shout , we aren't a shouty family

Sleepovers - occasional, rather than every weekend.

Make-up - not keen myself, but would allow small amounts. Emphasis being on quality, rather than quantity. Could you book her in for a lesson on how to do it properly?

Clothes - appropriate for a 12 yr old.

No Facebook, she's not old enough.

Shouting - occasional ok, everyone's human, but not all the time. No swearing (at home, anyway!)

My DD was 13 at the weekend.

Sleepovers not a problem but probably not two nights unless there is a specific reason.

Makeup - DD is not interested and a bit of a tomboy so things like that are not an issue, but I wouldn't let her wear too much make up or dress tartily.

Facebook - no problem, DD has had it for about 2 years as had most of her friends (The 13 age limit is to do with US law not UK and don't really see the point of an age limit), however no secrecy allowed ie we need to know passwords etc. Thankfully DD will tell me if there is anything horrible going on and she is very sensible with facebook.

Shouting - it happens but not that often. DD does not get away with being rude though.

what bruffin said

Sleepovers at friends - e.g.staying over Fri night and Sat night at a friends house - only in half-term/holidays - only one night at a time.

Make up/clothes - how much, what would you let them wear/not wear - no make-up unless for play at home - not allowed outside house in make-up. Short skirts yes but only with leggings under.

Facebook etc - how much, what limits, posting pictures etc - NO unsupervised access to internet (we're foster carers and we would be liable if she uploaded pictures of herself)- no facebook/myspace (too young for those)

Politeness/courtesy to family - e.g. do you sanction shouting? - Yes, she is allowed to express feelings angrily but she is not allowed to name-call/be disrespectful - she then gets sent to her room to cool down

I have 3 children. The youngest is 18.
At 12 they would have been allowed to go to sleepovers. Usually just for one night but 2 if it was for a special opccasion.
They started wearing basic make up like eye shaodow and lip gloss.
They didn'y go on facenook until they were over 13.
We encouraged politness but didn't get to stressed if they shouted as long as they didn't name call.

Sleepovers at friends - e.g.staying over Fri night and Sat night at a friends house.
-- This is ok with me, but the 12 yo has to come home for a while between sleepovers, eat at least one meal at home, and must check in by phone while away, tell me where she is if out with friends and ask permission to go to different places.

Make up/clothes - how much, what would you let them wear/not wear.
-- I allow make-up; coloured lip gloss, clear mascara, a little eye shadow according to interest and what the friends are all doing. Nothing vampy. We got a present of a Bobbi Brown book, 'Teenage Beauty' that pushed a very healthy attitude to appearance and grooming, and tips on skin problems etc.
-- Clothes: they can wear anything they want, and there have been few disasters. At that age they grow out of clothes so fast any offending items will soon be history anyhow, and fashions change fast too.

Facebook etc - how much, what limits, posting pictures etc
-- No Facebook until age 15 or 16 and this is considered a privilege that can be withdrawn. Those who have their own computer have them in their rooms. BUT absolutely no posting of photos onto social networking sites allowed. No webcamming allowed.
No tv in bedrooms if there's any problem at all with homework. DD2 has a little DVD player and tv, DS does not.
Computer time was a problem until they got their own laptops which they can have in their own room after buying them themselves. DD3 who is 12 spends a lot of time on the family computer doing homework as well as chatting with her friends, and is saving for her own laptop (it'll take her about 3 more years).

Politeness/courtesy to family - e.g. do you sanction shouting?
-- No shouting that is just rude or for the sake of drowning out someone else, other shouting is very discouraged too, and this cuts both ways. I have learned to moderate my approach and be aware that the teenagers, and even the tweenagers, don't like to be subjected to a laundry list of what they're doing wrong the minute they walk in from school/ being with friends. They need a little decompression time after spending time with their peers especially, or things get out of hand. Best to talk with them about things that come up while in the car or doing something together like folding sheets, baking. And the more stuff like that that you do together around the house, the more common ground and the less shoutiness there is.
Courtesy to family -- there is a good deal of teasing among them and it makes me grind my teeth sometimes. Making them see for themselves when it's getting out of hand/ crossing lines has been difficult.

I'm 16, but I reckon I have a fairly sensible idea of what's acceptable

Sleepovers at friends - Fine, as long as you can contact the parents and have spoken to them beforehand. I've been doing this since I was about 10. Definitely not every weekend or before school though.

Make up/clothes - Not much much at 12. I hardly wore any makeup at that age and I'm glad. All my friends that did now acknowledge how stupid they looked with too much of it plastered on their faces. Clothes: whatever, as long as it isn't ridiculous.

Facebook - I'm on FB way too much. I would say that regulating it is necessary. A 12-yr-old is too young to have a Facebook account, but if they did then I would definitely check your child's friends and their wall. Regulate other websites as well. When they're a bit older it becomes too intrusive though, and by then they should know the boundaries anyway. I talk to strangers on the internet, and contrary to media opinion and isolated cases, I'm not stupid enough to go meet people from chatrooms or anything. Make sure Facebook is on the highest privacy setting.

Politeness/courtesy to family - No tolerance at all. I am always polite to my parents and honestly don't understand my peers who aren't. If I had children they would flippin' well be nice to me or they'd get chucked out. Or something..

Thank you all very very much for your responses - I think from reading them that I am standing frim on the sleepovers and reigning in facebook. I turn internet off at 8 pm anyway, but it often provokes a barrage of shouting. I try and stay calm, but she often shouts and screams when boundaries are set, (one of which is withdrawing internet access if there is a problem turining it off when asked!.)

Dust - thanks also for your perspective as a teenager. Shes a good girl, but in my opinion clothes/make up are too 'mature' for her actual age IYSWIM.

Very helpful, thanks everyone for responding. I don't feel quite such an old fashioned freak now!

my daughter is 13 ,
she has been allowed to go to sleep overs in the past but i put a stop to it in the summer holidays as she is a bad asthmatic and used to come back stinking of smoke ect,it seems i am the youngest of the mums but the strictest.
she has no short skirts,heels ect,she was bought makeup by a relative for christmas and sometimes uses the mascara i would not have bought her any.
facebook-yes but i am on her list so nothing gets by me and i check daily.
attitude is fine for a 13 yr old,does nag about sleepovers and tries the pretty please??but im always firm,she does not strop at all,and does chores when asked.
only time she shouts is in the morning as she is not a morning person and hates getting up for school.

I have a 13 yr DD who will 14 in a couple of weeks. Up until 6 months ago, sleepovers were only once at the weekends and usually at our house and we'd always checked with parents, got a bit lapse and trust was broken. Now we are back to applying the same rules, do not mind twice now at weekends but one night is to be spent at home. Make up did get heavy 6 months ago with foundation and black eyes (goth) but she was following everyone else. Has now toned it down a bit. Face book - EVIL EVIL but she is allowed on it, all her friends are, I hate it and she has had to add me as a friend, problem is that she can go on the chat facility so you don't know what is being said. Have web filtering and parental watch so can check. Do not allow her to take laptop in bedroom anymore, say no more!!

So far she has now accepted the rules. Unfortunately do suffer backchat and shouting even though she gets told to wind her neck in and behave DH will not stand back chat.

If your DD looks 18 and is tall then it must be hard for her to find clothes that make her look her age. Do you shop with her? Look through magazines together for ideas about what's suitable?

Sleepovers at friends: would let normally let her do one but not both- but tbh nobody has offered to have her for more than one night!

Make up/clothes - she used makeup bought by her own pocket money, I trusted her to not fall foul of school rules or upset elderly relatives; she is now 13 and is quite good at it; high heels we've been restrictive with, as she has weak ankles, but did buy her a pair for aunt's 90th birthday.

Facebook etc - how much, what limits, posting pictures etc: nope and she herself thinks she is to young to handle this

Politeness/courtesy to family - e.g. do you sanction shouting?: I don't sanction it, but then I don't sanction shouting in myself and dh either, not to say it never happens... Of course, it would be nicer if we none of us ever lost our tempers. But we do all try our best. Name calling or swearing not acceptable- but that's nothing to do with whether you're 12 or 50, that's a house rule.

facebook ok as long as it was monitored and i was a friend

sleepovers even two ok as long as there is direct contact either face to face or over the telephone with the parents of the other child.

no make up - shes 12!

clothes - jeans n stuff - no minis nothing that would sexualise her.

politeness - as i would expect from anyone but bare in mind she isn't 7 any more and to a certain extent a certain amount of gobshytyness is to be expected -t he trick is tot alk about it afterwards.

and when she says " but you said x, y, z and thats just not right..." you have to apologise. you have to teach her that you can be wrong, upset and even shouty - we are all human, as long as afterwards you don't keep up the facade of pretending tobe right. you acknowledge others feelings and apologise and that just doesn't go for the teen, it goes for everyone.

I have a 15 yr old DSD - at this age, there was a little make-up, nothing too drastic, she's always had an individual sense of dress but not at all tarty/revealing.
Occasional sleepovers, but not more than one night and not every weekend and not Sundays.
No TV in room until recently, and then because I felt she was getting fed up with Dad/Brother monopolising the TV choices!
FB - 12 seems a bit young, but maybe used with supervision and understanding the issues around privacy/security etc.
Shouting never an issue here - we're pretty laid back and I've never heard DP raise his voice to the kids (nor have I) in the 8 years we've been together - kids not shouty either.
Good advice from Dust.

DD is 12 going on 18

Sleepovers at friends - not during term-time and only once per holiday

Make up/clothes - she wears eye make up and she looks lovely in it until she rubs her eyes and turns her nose blue - so mostly I make her wash it off when she starts looking a bit panda-ish. I go clothes shopping with her and she mainly goes for Jack Wills and Holister - so it's all preppy and age-appropriate

Facebook etc - she has the obligatory 2000 friends on facebook, but I am one of those friends and that's a condition of usage. Literally every one of her school friends is on there so it's difficult to ban

Politeness/courtesy to family - e.g. do you sanction shouting? No, she does occasionally have a tantrum but since any tantrum is swiftly followed by confiscating her phone (on one occasion for a MONTH) she's cut the shouting down to around once every three months or so

The main area where we struggle with boundaries is around internet safety and switching her mac off at 10 am so that she can read

Thanks very much again all who replied. I think my main issue is that I have different ideas of what is appropriate than her mother. We don't go clothes shopping together, her mum does that. I know there's a certain ammount of skirt rolling up and replacing leggings with tights that goes on. Still, there is a bit too much flesh showing for my liking. The make up thing both her mum and I are tackling.

I've discussed the sleepover thing, and we have agreed once at the weekend only.

Regarding facebook - here I'm stuck. Her mums view is that they all do it (can't believe that, particularly after all these replies!) and allows her to post pics of herself that I don't think are appropriate. It's true, some of her friends post similar pictures, but I don't think that makes it ok.

Since reading your posts I've spoken to her mum about what I do and don't feel comfortable with, and to an extent she has understood. It's difficult looking after a teen that's not you own, but is family (not a step parent either). She does shout a lot, particularly when internet is shut off or she is not allowed a sleepover. Dh hand I do not shout at all, and the internet is disconnected for levels of rudeness over general stropiness.

Many thanks for the wise words! It has enabled me to open up communication with her mum.

Sleepover - wouldn't be a problem for me, though it's not something my dd (13) has asked for for some time.

Makeup - I second mathanxiety recommendation about the bobby brown book. Following excellent suggestions from people on here after my issues with tango-makeup, I took DD into the nearest big town with a bobbi brown counter - they did a free makeover on her, showing how to apply the stuff in a very natural way. As it was also Birthday time, we did spend money on make-up following the session, but there was no pressure by the staff who were very professional and good. It's been great since.

Facebook - she's had it since she was 12, but I am a friend and make sure I monitor her wall from time to time. It's not been a problem so far (fingers crossed)

My DD is 12. Reassuring to read so many others have restricted facebook til she is actually 13, we do get grief about doing so but stick to our guns and dont let her lie.
Sleepovers - yes but never done 2 nights in a row and if you know the families involved you know what sort of nights sleep they might get & make the decision accordingly!
My DD is really interested in make up and sometimes piles too much on. She's aware that too much does look a bit tarty and went for a proper make up session in hols as part of a friends party. Have often thought it must be hard if child looks so much older than her years and I'd remember her actual age'