Les Parisiennes des Mamansnet: JesusFlo Superstar in a Back Lit Kaftan (Toyboy Not Included)

[botemp]

Lovers of Parisian style and fashion with a conscious mindset and lots of chatter in between.

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Favoured Parisian addresses:

Second Hand Shops

Outlets

Favoured London addresses:

Charity Shops, Dress Agencies, and Outlets

Favoured NYC addresses:

Consignment shops, Vintage, and Restaurants

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Dix-sept

[4plusthehound]

Is it me or does there seem to be very little creativity around?

Remember before LVMH and all those huge corporations snapped up all the brands? Seemed that there was things happening all the time, new talent popping up, interesting movements?

I feel like it is mostly interchangeable now!

Or maybe I am just grumpy and jaded!

[ToEllewithIt]

You're exactly right about that cognac shade. I couldn't put my finger on it. Out of curiosity I had a scan on Vestiaire to see if there was a blazer that might work, but there's literally nothing in that shade. It's all cool brown. That said, I have coat in cognac so I'll play around with it a bit instead.

The trench is nice but not especially exciting so would definitely need a really well- functioning hood to make it a but for me. My J+ jacket has a brilliant hood to be fair.

Wow those are great discounts on Otrium but no delivery to Ireland, only Belgium and France. I'm going to Paris for work in March so could look closer to the time and have it delivered to the office there if anything grabs me. I need to have a proper look. Thanks for the recommendation.

[ToEllewithIt]

4plusthehound I feel the same. I'm on the bus so not much time to expound on it. I can't remember the last thing I saw something really exciting. For instance I screenshot this as a look to try to recreate. I like a lot it but I feel like we've been seeing this look for at least 5 years.

Actually I left the Instagram tag on it because she's well worth a follow. She's the love island stylist ( no really, keep reading) and has great tips on second hand shopping and eBay (who've been sponsoring Love Island).

[Floisme]

I'm kind of a bit excited by some of the Dior New Look vibe, even though there's nothing actually new about it, in fact Dior seem to have pretty much ripped off their own 1947 archive. But then on second thoughts no, 'excited' is far too strong a word for it - 'like' would do perfectly well! What's disappointing is that these are surely just the kind of times that are meant to bring out the creativity and ingenuity of fashion. Or maybe I'm just too impatient and it'll take a year or 2 before we start seeing that.

Thanks for showing me the U trenchcoat Red, I think you've convinced me it's not worth a punt! I still think Lemaire has proved a point - that it's perfectly possible to produce a decent looking raincoat with a chuffing hood, so wake up all you lazy bastard British designers. (Sorry I've not had my coffee yet.)

[Floisme]

Ah speaking of Dior, I hadn't noticed that your second link was to a Chiuri interview bo - thanks! I don't know much about her, in fact I don't know anything. Aren't you a fan?

[botemp]

No, not much of a fan, but it's one of those I want to believe she's actually worth caring about situations and coming out disappointed every time. Commercially, there's no debating she's been great for Dior but it's all just fugly Lady Dior bags to me. There's plenty of other brands that have done the 1947 silhouette, even one that created it with pockets, I'll look them up later for you. I'll be curious to hear what you make of the interview as you're from the same generation, I think, she speaks as if she's born into feminism and it's always been a part of her life but she comes across to me like the newly converted, I don't know if that's just my struggling to like her though.

I fear I'm rubbing off on all of you with my endless rants about how shit the state of fashion is and how samey it all is. Sometimes I wonder if algorithms are at play as you just get more of the same suggested so it doesn't feel like there's much change happening.

Elle, have you looked for suede camel blazers, it's that shade too? Yves Saint Laurent (or maybe it was already Saint Laurent by then) always used to carry them, I'd look in the men's for a similar fit as the Prada one. Corduroy would work too but it reminds me too much of furniture in that colour.

(Off topic, they wear clothes on love island? I thought they were all flitting about in swimwear, although I suppose that could involve styling too 🤔)

[banivani]

Mes amies, comment allez-vous? I've been too tired for almost anything. Strongly suspect undiagnosed ADHD that is finally taking its toll, must try to implement strategies. Skimmed through the last thread and am now placemarking here.

I wanted to share this snippet "When my German mother takes me shopping" www.instagram.com/p/ClwhS0RJCJB/ which hit a leetle too close to home, despite me not being German. The Italian father making dinner is another gem. Highly recommend.

I am too fat for fashion so fashion can go feck right off. I'd settle for some fecking clothes that aren't shite or made by murdering people. Bought a flannel shirt in Uniqlo that is lovely to wear but am consumed with guilt about Chinese slave labour. Noticed that Uniqlo U is sludge coloured, again.

Tights can also feck off - I don't understand what to do. Opaques feel terrible, my legs are black stumps STOMP STOMP STOMP. Sheers break. We need to go back to wool hose and garters.

[microbius]

The interview with Chiurri made me so suspicious; it does look more like jumping on a bandwagon than leading it although I am happy to be wrong.

On the topic of sameness in fashion - and maybe beauty?

I appreciated her makeup. It is a break from the sameness of: must paint eyebrows on, must define lips, oh! blusher! never go without. It results in an instantaneously recognisable look. I went to a kids birthday party yesterday and you could almost date the makeup style women wore. Here is the natural beauty trend with thousand of layers of serums and blush; here is the tightlining. I mean, they looked good, but I can't keep wonder whether it is the makeup leading the woman rather than the woman leading the makeup. So the makeup is not individual.

(you see, I am struggling to update my makeup)

Bani, the German mother takes me shopping 😂

[Floisme]

All I know about Chiuri is that interview which I've just read, so I'm quite possibly talking bollocks (which my phone keeps insisting on changing to bullocks) but I don't normally let that stop me.

So firstly I tend to think that for most women roughly my age, feminism is kind of in your DNA, and if you were brought up in Italy, where Google tells me abortion wasn't legalised till 1978, and divorce till 1974, it must be even more so. So I don't doubt her sincerity, and I also take my hat off to any woman of around 60 who's making a good living from one of the most youth obsessed industries on the planet.

That said, it sounds like she's very good at the big gestures - and I'm not dissing gestures, they can be very powerful. But for me, if you're a female designer who wants to make a real difference for women - and I don't believe it's compulsory - then the obvious thing to do is surely to produce clothes that are kind to, and celebrate women's bodies? And, while this might be down to my ignorance - I don't know much about their recent collections - I've never associated Dior with that. I mean I really like the New Look silhouette and always have done, but Guys, Guys, it's not real! So that makes me sceptical. And as for the feminist slogan T shirts, oh please, if .you really want to throw a firecracker into that self-righteous Vogue world then maybe send your models down the runway in 'Adult Human Female T' shirts, otherwise don't bother.

[Redandblue11]

I found that metaverse FT article really interesting. I did not quite realise the lengths that the whole industry was penetrating, that being said … I should have realised… when some in my DS circle insist on getting (buying) Avatars , which I did not used to understand what they were till I realised they were clothes/accessories for their games characters , I used to think some where to make them play better, but my DS informs me that is because it looks ‘good’ just that, and now I understand where he knows LV from … roblox probably.

Yes Chiuri, I don’t quite buy her message. It doesn’t seem that forward or feminist / inclusive, it seems to me more taking a shortcut to appease what people is supposed to want. I don’t really know a lot about her either.

That German grandma made me LOL.
well Bani is good to know you are still here, even if not posting regularly, hopefully you can find a way to manage all the woes. And yes to strategies and implementing regularly, hopefully you can see someone to help you thru that.

[banivani]

Wasn't it only five minutes ago we were buying each other virtual cocktails on facebook? Now it's virtual clothes, but aimed at children. It's like whatshisnames virtual reality fantasy/sci fi epic (it's boring in the long run, don't bother) - Tad Williams, that's it. Otherland. Don't bother.

Flo, agree agree agree. If you'll allow me to paint with the broad brushstrokes of prejudice I think in Italy (and France) there may well (still) be an underlying attitude that only the pretty deserve feminism/equality. But don't quote me.

[faustina]

hello - just popping my head round the door to say I'm looking for a home for a Margaret Howell Tshirt. It needs to be dyed (has a fade mark) but is otherwise lovely and also unworn. It's too fitted for me - size 10, black cotton long sleeved. No charge, just a home with someone who likes fitted t-shirts and appreciates nice ones. I've put pics on the Toast thread

[botemp]

Bani you're back too <happy cheery pub noises all round> how much skimming did you do, have you just glanced over Red's dream starring you or are we just ignoring it...

My mother wasn't the German kind (thankfully, soz) but she probably the random other mother she befriended out of nowhere.

Tights, before I forget, I don't know if it counts as innovation but in South Korea they have these (I think) fleece lined tights but the point of difference is that the lining is flesh coloured and the outer fabric is a transparent tight like black fabric. Pretty much indestructible and warm and basically look like sheer tights. They might be leggings though and I've only ever seen them for sale on Chinese sites like Alibaba that ship them here but Yesstyle might have some. I think they also come in a compression version as they do have a thing about having as slim as possible legs over there. Sigh.

I'm not buying anyone anything virtual. I've been on the internet way too long, like it just got released to the public long, the idea of paying for anything on it is still a ridiculous concept in my mind.

Regarding Chiuri, thanks for your thoughts Flo, I have more to say on it all but have run out of time so will respond about later. Adding promised pics, Moschino (black hat), Brandon Maxwell (pockets on pleated skirt), and the ever unfairly ignored Palmer Harding (brown outfit).

[banivani]

oh I missed the dream - was I amazing in it?

[botemp]

Obvi, Flo stole the show though.

Here's a link to the South Korean tights that are actually fleece lined leggings but look like sheer tights.

www.yesstyle.com/en/gentiana-fleece-lined-tights-leggings/info.html/pid.1088194923

[botemp]

I missed JCM's other article, very much discussing how boring fashion is, it's got a name, apparently, Blandstanding, tbh, all these quotes from interviews with the designers in that article makes them sound creatively burned out, definitely feels like the technocrats have taken over.

Back to the Chiuri article, Flo, my mother was prone to this (and potentially I have this blind spot too) so maybe I'm just projecting, but it feels like she's revising history to suit the narrative of today. By the sound of it she grew up in a working class family that wasn't particularly religious, probably were involved or flirted with socialism and/or communism which wasn't uncommon post Mussolini and therefore when it came to womens' rights issues it aligned with feminism. Is that a feminist household, technically, probably, maybe, but in her telling it's like her parents were reading The Feminine Mystique to her at bedtime.

There's more I take issue with (bloody skyscrapers, it's just the most efficient form of engineering, just be glad we don't call tunnels womb or vagina like already). Also, the Catherine Dior book is still somewhat fresh in my memory, she had no interest in fashion so this whole revision of Christian Dior made voluminous clothing to make emaciated women like his sister feel better about themselves is more proof (to me) of this revision as if Christian Dior was some sort of body positivity champion ahead of his time. Catherine Dior was mostly into flowers and wore very functional clothing to garden in. He made the Miss Dior perfume for her, so there's a kernel of truth somewhere.

I don't see her making adult human female t-shirts anytime soon, far more likely the opposing mantra. I do wonder if it'll ever come to a head over that issue between them and Chimamanda Ngozi Adiche.

[banivani]

Well that's fair enough, at least I was amazing somewhere, instead of the dumpy mess I am IRL ;) Today I'm in jeans that are too long and I never bothered to shorten, wool socks and my fake crocs-material fake birkenstyle sandals, an overly polite green top from Ril's that I bought in the sale and realise is very middle age middle class Swedish woman but fuck it I needed a top and over it all a brown knitted jumper. At work.

[ShangPie]

Welcome back bani! Speaking for myself here, but I think we’re all feeling a touch dumpy mess. It’s the end of February, it’s cold, grey and all-round meh. Roll on spring and sunshine (but I’ll pass on the spring florals, ta ever so)

bo, those Asian tights are good in theory but hideous in practice (they were pretty ubiquitous in Chinese winters). The double-layer thickness makes them fold in a really strange way when the wearer walks or sits, making their legs look like a rag doll’s. Avoid!

The whole NFT / dress your online avatar thing just seems like a lot of Emperors New Clothes to me, but I can see why brands are getting into it from a revenue stream / authentication / reach new audience POV. Don’t know enough anything at all about it but I wonder if the buyer has access to any kind of special features or if it’s just yet another logo-placement. Not for me, in any case

[botemp]

Thanks for the heads up Shangpie, I've only seen them online and they look good in pictures but I've never purchased due to scepticism. But I like the idea of them.

No, we're definitely not the NFT/avatars target audience but it's interesting nonetheless that these sort of status items are migrating into the virtual world, probably a better choice than a disposable beany made by slave labour. I definitely see the appeal for the luxury brands as brand building but it's a rather long haul strategy of hoping when Red's son grows up he'll want to buy LV items because he saw it in Roblox when he was younger.

Yes, February is always shit, thankfully it's almost over.

[MmePoppySeedDefage]

@faustina if your MH t shirt is still available I'll give it a good home.

[faustina]

@MmePoppySeedDefage - oh good - will mesage you

[ToEllewithIt]

I feel like Di-bore have really not done too much in the last few years. The accessories are just a riff of repeats from the J’adior sling backs to the saddle bags, Lady Dior bags and those (awful IMO) book bags. What do I know though, it’s obviously working for them.
It is pretty poor that they couldn’t have managed one plus -sized model. Especially as a lot of their RTW would work really well on someone non-straight sized.
While I loved Chimanda Ngozi Adiche’s Essay I was never that wild about the t-shirts. I think that the title fails to capture the brilliance of the essay and taken in isolation, like on a t-shirt, has the ring of “someone should do something” about it.
The only thing about the make up trends microbius is that I do think the latest one – good skincare, liquid products, blush, minimal liner just so happens to look good on women of my age so while I skipped the cut crease and then the contouring and the 90s lip, when a trend finally arrived that was flattering I jumped all over it.
Good idea on the suede blazer. I’ll hold fire for the moment.
I like the term blandstanding. The upside is that while the creativity might be lacking, everything looks so wearable so there’s plenty that can be recreated. Maybe I’ll try that this month – how closely can I approximate the runway looks with my existing wardrobe?

[botemp]

"good skincare, liquid products, blush, minimal liner" has always been my go to look, with minimal variations. I find makeup much more regional than trend based though. But we're probably not the best people to ask, people who are into fashion tend not to care about hair and makeup all that much and vice versa.

The t-shirts were lame but they have their function. As Flo said, if Dior put out adult human female t-shirts and not back down to backlash, it'd be much more than a t-shirt.

Wrt plus sized models, I assume they have data to back up that it would harm their exclusive image more than it would gain them virtue signal points to be inclusive in that way.

Anyhow, looking forward to a month of runway looks, Elle, get cracking.

[microbius]

elle post your recreations, please! I am guilty of saving some looks and then not recreating the colour relationship which can throw everything off balance. It would be interesting to think if you could translate colour to another colour or colour+texture when recreating a look. IYSWIM

Makeup - interesting, I didn't realise fashion and makeup tribes are so separate. I was trying to update my makeup post baby and pre full on menopause, realising that I need a bit more colour. I am glad, Elle, that the current look -liquid everything- works on you. I realised I prefer the pale uneasy look of Isabel Huppert with her bright-ish lips and no blush.. Then it is the question (cue recent thread) of style and fashion and how one updates a look while creating an individuality with it. When there isn't much choice, as you and bo say, it's like circling through a defined number of recreations backed up (or made up) by data

[botemp]

I'm making it sound more contentious than it is, but throw in shoes, bags and jewelry and then imagine it like individual dials. You sort of have the choice to dial up or down, if all are down it's too quiet and when all are up it's deafening. It's a game of what do you lead with, what do you then emphasize, who are the support players, etc. For example, you'll often see female royals with very distinct hair styles, it's very symbolic as a a stand in for a crown. I'm sure you've seen an insta influencer in the flesh at some point, they tend to have all the dials set to max, that works really well in photo and video but in real life it tips into uncanny valley.