normally go for brown knee high timberland style but dd saying these are too childish - she wants some Doc Martens but as she is quite petite not sure if they will suit her. She normally wears converse in summer and has some black biker boots from last year that still fit her. Clothes wise she tends to wear the "teenage" labels. I think she's trying to get her own look & was thinking maybe some black patent ones if you can get them. thanks for your help