Can anyone teach me a thing ot two about eyeliner??

[twotonetinsel]

I am a complete novice, and don't often wear makeup unless going out and then just use eyeshadow and mascara. However I see eyeliner worn as a subtle, very fine, soft line at the roots of the lashes and it looks great. I would love to be able to do it but just can't get the hang of it.
I have tried a couple of pencils - one so hard that doesn't leave a mark and the other so soft it migrates and smudges under my eyes even though I don't rub them.
Help please! What do I use and how do I apply it? I would like to use it every day. It might help the mid-life crisis.

wait til Cod surfaces, she'll teach you a thing or too and no mistake

I soften my pencil w/a lighter a bit before applying.

Liquid liner looks too harsh on me - I'm 34.

I stick to non-black - taupe, purple, green for going out, brown for work.

Try one w/a smudger on one end - No. 7 makes a nice one.

Make sure your eye area is well-moisturised, but not greasy.

I apply my liner before my mascara.

You need a liquid eyeliner.

To apply rest your elbow on a table with mirror infront of you, will take a bit of practice.

PS A dark brown is a more subtle colour, black is too harsh.

would like to know too, actually.
i always seem to look like a goth when i use eyeliner.

Cod where are you when you are needed? You must be the world authority on slap and I need your advice. I have just been reading the makeup thread and pmsl .