Should estranged children be subject to the same expectations?

[WakeyCakey45]

This may be a continuation of my thread about age-related accountability, but I'm not sure.

It was my DSC birthdays recently. DSS is partially-estranged, and DSD completely, so DH posted gifts to them.

DSS (the younger), thanked DH by phone. DSD (17) didn't acknowledge the gift at all. No text, thank you card, nothing.

So, will DH be reinforcing and validating her rude behaviour if he continues to send gifts/cards in future, or should he keep doing so despite her rudeness?
He's upset, not because he expected a thank you, but because he thought he'd parented her in a way that taught her good manners. He is waiting to see if his parents mention to him whether she has thanked them for the gift they sent her - if not, I'm sure they'll pull her up on it!

Birthday/Xmas cards and gifts is not the only contact he makes with her - he sends texts and emails with links to things he thinks she might be interested in once a week or so, but she never responds, but he doesn't do it for that reason; it's just a way of letting her know he's still there for her.

I don't know what your personal situation is but I went n/c at the same age as your SD. After that any cards or gifts I really seen to be antagonistic and went in the bin.

As PP my DH has been estranged from his father since he was 17 and everything goes straight in the bin. Even the large cheques when we really could have used the money.

I assume DSD knows where her father is if she ever changes her mind.

After that any cards or gifts I really seen to be antagonistic and went in the bin.

I assume the texts and emails DH sends could be considered in the same way then?

It's so hard - it seems whatever DH does, he's at risk of getting it catastrophically wrong.

Again I can only base it on my situation. Any contact was seen as antagonistic. He would spend hours calling until I changed my phone number. Email is probably the only thing I would attempt to read but I never replied. Think the last contact was perhaps my 21st. After that, I haven't heard from him.

Thanks conversation. I'm so bewildered by the whole thing, and DH is so hurt.
Part of me agrees that DSD is old enough to decide for herself whether or not she wants a father, but another part of me believes she is far too young to understand the full implications of cutting him out of her life. The life experiences we've had make us realise that if she leaves it to late to get in touch in the future, there's a risk that DH won't be there.

I'm estranged from my own parents, so understand only too well the emotional conflict it creates; but that happened when I was in my 30's- I can't imagine dealing with that when I was so young.

I think expectations of 'manners' are really nothing to do with whether she replies or not. If she is attempting to go no contact then she could be distressed by seeming interference in her special day.

I went n\c because my Dad had lied about something and specifically went behind my back. I said no more contact on the spur of the moment but it started to make more and more sense in my life. I no longer feel pulled between two parents, I'm not open to the emotional power games anymore and I don't have to listen to lies.

I'm just giving you my perspective, I don't know time frame or reasons in your situation. I can't imagine it's easy. Maybe thinking through how you felt when you went n/c might help?

Could he put money into a dedicated bank account for her and let her know so that it will always be there for her (probably without strings of contact if dss is in contact to pass on a message) so that when she is older there'll be something for her rather than presents that get thrown away (and maybe just send a small token gift if there is a risk it will be thrown) but it will continue to show that he wants to be there for her.

Agree set up the bank account with the money, but if you tell her it is there, it is a bit manipulative, like she is being bought.

The best thing you can do, Imo, is leave the door open and get on with your lives. She does know where you are.

Are you sure it is NC, rather than life stage, where there are so many new experience happening, it tends to take over? I can quite imagine a 17 year old being caught up in her life, particularly if contact has been patchy, rather than determined NC.

It's a conscious decision to go no contact, in order to appease her Mum - she's done it before, for the same reasons, when she was younger (there's a long thread about it elsewhere).

This is the first time she's not sent a simple "thank you" though. It's possible that previously, her responses were driven by her Mum, who is very motivated by appearances. Their mum bought a highly sentimental Xmas card that she insisted DSS send to DH and I last year despite being in the middle of a court case she had initiated attempting to block all contact and was accusing DH of abuse of both her and DSS!

Its quite likely that DSS thank you's are prompted by his mum, and that previous thanks from DSD are similarly motivated. In which case, a natural consequence of her choice not to say thank you will be not receiving a gift next time.
But equally, she could be reacting to the emotional abuse, as described by a poster on my other thread, in which case, not sending her gifts in the future will only add to her distress.

Dss has never thanked us or the rest of his paternal family for any birthday or Xmas gifts.

Last Xmas my dp's sister decided to put money away for dss rather than send it to him.

Dsd1 for some reason, decided to send thank you texts "on behalf of" her brother this year and was adamant the thank you's had come from him. She sent one to dp's sister to thank her for the lovely present.

I think a non contact child should refuse or return the gift. I would certainly advise my teen son to do just that. If you have a principal, you can't pick and choose when to have it.

My dss makes requests for gifts whilst having never thanked anyone for anything. I think that's very bad manners and as dss Mum, I'd be v disappointed in my son.

We have a similar situation here, I have 3 step children ( dh's children ), the eldest only contacts dh if he is desperate for money, the middle one never contacts and we have tried to contact him but he doesn't want to know the youngest is almost 15 and only makes contact to ask for money. We buy gifts for all 3 of them ( birthdays and Christmas ), Christmas is the only time they will consider coming over as they know they will get a gift, it's rare that they say thank you , it makes dh upset but we will continue to give them gifts for birthdays and Christmas and we continue to pay for dad's school uniform and school trips when she calls, even though it makes us angry that they rarely thank us we don't want them to ever say that 'we never bothered trying to contact them to be a part of their life '. Dh has never given them reason not to like him ( their mum had an affair and then kicked him out so he wasn't in the wrong ), the only thing dh has done is to refuse to give them money all the time because we can't afford to keep giving them money ( same as you would refuse with any child ).

So I would say, continue with the gifts and don't be too disappointed that you/your dh gets nothing in return, at least he has tried and has proved that he is thinking of her.

No no no. Continue to send gifts. Do not give up!!! Even if she never acknowledges them she will feel loved x

OP I would keep sending the gifts or at least a card with a bit of money inside. Your DCs are teenagers and, as we know, have more 'erratic' behavior. It's unlikely they will be nc forever.

Do what feels right and keep sending gifts. Your SDCs need to see that you are loving, consistent and not petty

Parenting can be a thankless task sometimes but hopefully in the end it will help the relationships with your DC.

I agree, I would keep on sending stuff.

I think continue to send.
If he stops it gives more ammunition to either her or her mum.
I've been in similar situations with my siblings ignoring contact and gifts from my dad and a lot if it was teenage angst.
Hopefully, when she gets to her mid twenties she'll be able to see that her dad really cared about her.

Hi Wakey we strongly believe in not sending money or presents but always send a card and sometimes a letter. We are under no illusions that they probably end up in the bin, but the point is that it leaves the door open and we can never be accused of giving up or not trying. Dh's real dad left when he was 12. He has heard nothing from him since and as a consequence he hates him and has no intention of trying to 'find' him. Dh swore he'd never do that to his dc, no matter what. Dsd doesn't even thank dh's family for gifts though occasionally meets up with them. Her lack of gratitude was responsible for the fallout that caused her to go nc. But he always sends cards - including well done cards for her exams to tell her he's proud of her.

We have gone through this twice with DSS1 (22), the first time he was 17yo and didn't speak to his dad for a year, during that time we still sent birthday and christmas gifts and cards. Dh also probably called once a fortnight to see if ds would talk to him (but he refused too). However after a year they reconciled, and everything was fine until our second was born last year.

dh and dss have now not spoken since, i did come on this forum and asked what to do regards presents and was advised to send a small gift (which we did)...I couldn't put my query across as eloquently as the op has but my question was the same, though I felt uncomfortable sending presents/money to someone, who for all and tense purposes hated his dad and our children (there siblings)

We are now at a place were we send cards...and as others have said to keep the door open...I have to say though during both these periods we did this (presents, cards and calls) to keep in contact and would never have thought it might antagonize the other person (but it is interesting to know that's how it might be viewed)...

I don't have personal experience with this as regards children, although I do have an adult sister who has been n/c with my parents at various times. I know from talking to her about it that she would have been more hurt if the presents/cards had stopped, because she would have interpreted that as them abandoning her (not logical, but how she'd frame it in her mind). I think a lot probably depends on how and why the NC came about! In my sister's case, she wanted more attention from my parents and was unhappy that (she felt) they hadn't given it to her - but someone who went NC because they felt controlled or betrayed by the parent would probably have the opposite response to gifts/continued attempts at contact?

I think personally I would send a card, with no PA overtones, just a simple 'happy birthday, love you' message. Possibly I would put the amount that would have been spent on a gift into an account (probably quietly) in case the child ever ran into real trouble and needed help in the future, as a PP suggests.

As a child whose dad hasn't bothered, it hurts that he doesn't....and I am 36 now!