talking of siblings - for those that had child with SN first...

[Woooozle100]

.. what struck you most as odd / different or caused concern with subsequent NT kids?

Was thinking about this last night and laughing about it. For me, my first dd was v floppy as result of low muscle tone. She didn't have that 'scrunched up' appearance and when she laid down her legs fell completely flat.

When I had my ds, his newborn 'frog legs' where a total shock. Was convinced it was a sign of spasticity. Erm even got the GP onto it who had to go to great effort to convince me that this was 'normal'

Haha - not to me Was also staggered by his voracious appetite

For me, it was when dd2 started to babble. DD1 was almost silent until she was a year old, so in a weird way, it was a shock to hear how vocal dd2 was.

that babies actually slept!!!

DS3 tells fibs! he is also a bit sneaky about doing things that he has been told not to do. I did not have strategies in place to deal with this as DS1 and 2 are very honest (and don't sneak, prefering the loud complaining technique if I tell them not to do something. DS3's theory of mind constantly surprises me.

oh, agree about the babbling" dd2 was (and is!) so noisy. dd1 was a very quiet and placid baby, dd2 has always made her presence known

actually, I am also finding that I see a lot of things the other way around too, so lots of things that I put down to dd1's ASD, I am now finding was more to do with her age than her ASD, iyswim. dd2 (NT we think) is 2, and looking at her behaviour now, and comparing it with dd1's behaviour at 2, there are loads of (NT) similarities.

It gets more fun as they get older, so now I'm picking my way through AS?
Or pain in the *rse teenage boy?

oh yes, goblinchild, we have that with dsd

her answer to most things is "it's not my fault, it's my AS", and dh and I try to show her that actually, it's not, it's just what everyone else is doing/would do (or not as the case may be!)

When ds2 picked up a cup ( with a lid) and drank out of it. I had no idea that you didn't have to teach a child hand over hand for 2 weeks to drink from a cup.

I am still blown away when I point something out to dd2 and she turns and looks at it too. It does make life so much easier...

I was definitely very paranoid the second time around. DD2 (NT as far as I know) sticks her tongue out a lot. Everyone kept on commenting, including PHN so I brought her along to one of DD1 paeds appts. I was waiting for him to dismiss it, but no - he sent her for thyroid tests. So I go home and goodle thyroid function etc, thinking that a dodgy thyroid would be fairly minor in the scheme of things. Turns out that if it is not caught early it can lead to LD's. i was hysterical with worry. Anyway, turns out she just has a big tongue!

For me the weirdest moment was when dd was a baby and busy doing something. I was talking to dh about her and after a while I noticed that every time her name was mentioned she turned round to look at us.

There then followed several minutes of trying out different names to see whether she would turn for those too or just her own.

It was just so weird having a child who responded to their own name. Ds1 is 8 and still rarely does this.

Blimey ...so many nt things

The midwife noted a 'social smile' when dd was 2 weeks old.

At about 6 months or so...someone gave dd a new toy. She looked at it and then looked at me to see what i thought of it. I suddenly realised that she had theory of mind ...it was a real 'lightbulb' moment for me. I knew then for sure that ds definitely had some sort of problem.

Also when older say about 3 she would give me a 'knowing look ' or catch my eyes and roll her eyes about something someone as said or done.

Also really basic stuff like instinctively knowing where her body ended and the rest of the world began. She just knew that sort of stuff.
I never realised that it could be so easy.....that they just can do this sort of stuff!

I have just been watching Boogie beebies with my two - dd1 likes it, and dances along (sort of swaying while swinging her arms round).

dd2 was copying all the actions, even some of the really weird ones.

It really is fascinating.

how my dd2 and then dd3 did just did things - you know - things that you would have put hours of therapy and play into dd1 doing and the other two just did it.

My two both have very advanced language - probably due to wanting to do everything that dd1 does. Like Jolly Phonics, SALT and OT activities.

So I have dd1 with down syndrome and then I have two - dd2 and 3 who are showing themselves to be somewhat advanced with incredibly well developed language skills.

The flip side - I love the fact that funnily dd3 is quite like dd1 in personality - bold, outgoing, almost precocious. I always felt dd1 was bold and scarily risky due to her SN - now I am thinking part of it is down to her confident behaviour.

It was a bit later I caught on I think, the Paed tells us that a significant proportion of her famillies present when a second child starts passing the older child on developmental stuff- and that was us.

It's something we are re-experienceing with ds3 / ds4 now as well, as even at 14 months there are things ds4 is doing that ds3 doesn't.

am nodding away at so many of these (haha the genius and not having to show them how to play with toys / use cups etc)

Did anyone find that after the intital amazement at what they could do, a sort of - perhaps resent is too strong a word - but a sad feeling at how easy and effortless stuff was for them? Like, how can you do that, x has worked and tried so hard and still can't

Oh some other things I realised:-
pillows don't work keeping 6 mo baby on the bed.

kids can bounce back after illness - a cough doesn't mean a week of iv antibiotics and chest physio

babies / toddlers that can move and pick stuff up tend to do so. Er all the time. No 'letting them get on with it' for couple of mins whilst washing up / doing sudoko puzzle etc

Oh and stop swearing. Right now!

Pixie, I also feel sad sometimes when dd2 does something effortlessly eg riding her bike, while dd1 is looking on, frustrated and upset. It's hard to strike a balance at times, between being happy for dd2 and realising that she is overtaking dd1 in lots of ways and that dd1 realises it, too

On a lighter note, I have to admit that I get a lot of pleasure watching dd2 using her initiative and being completely independent. Yesterday, she couldn't get a new toy out of its packet and she trotted off, got some scissors, opened the packet up, put the cardboard into the recycling and put the scissors back. She's 4, btw.

I think these things can be bittersweet.

there's a flip side too

it'shard for ds2 when he gets told off for things that the sn boys might not (he went through a stage of copying metdowns, for examle)

It's also IME true that if you have a condition yourself but present after the first it'sless likely to be picked up , school raised ds2 concerns for adhd and dyspraxia; I am certain ADHD isn't really present but the dyspraxia foundation reads like a description of him. Poorlad is 8 and I am certain we'd have noticed earlier if we were comparing to the NT average.

My boy (12..asd) is also completely disorganised. He doesn't really realise there is any organising to do tbh....is completely unaware of it.
dd (nt...6) organises herself and him.

I too feel sad sometimes when i realise how much easier it is for her...i feel sorry for him still (which is stupid because he doesn't give a toss! ).

I know what you mean Peachy, DS1 definitely has AS traits but I just thought he was shy and sensitive until I read up on DS2's AS.

DS3(5 and NT) has a friend round this morning and I have just realised how good he is at thinking up games and organising other children to play them, the other two still basically do mostly parallel play (on the X-box or their DSs) or join in with whatever the visitor is doing, or in DS2's case ignore them if they want to anything he finds dull!

DS3 has never struggled with time concepts like his brothers did, they still have difficulties with the order of the days of the week, months, even seasons. Saying "not this week but the week after next" baffles my older two.

Ah my bioys all ahev order issues too,loads of self management problems around ordering and that sort of thing. Trying to explain to NT-Maybe_dyspraxic ds2 that having a jabuary birthaday doesn't mean yu always come last as it's cyclical....!!! head implosion time

We do a few carefully chosen playaftes now, and my oh the difference is dramatic with their NT friends! ( I say friends, with ds1 it's the oth4r kids in the SN group..... mainly a lovely Thai kid with poor English)

I know it will get easier fio, ATM though watching ds4 communicate and oint in a way ds3 can't (ages 14 months and almost 6) is a bit - well yes bitter sweet. We're ecstatic ds4 can point etc, and he's out there singing row row row (AGAIN!) now, but it's sad for ds3.

Another thing that will crop up soon is a year into Uni course ds1 willreach the age 11 cut off for after school; I relaise the NT kids are exected to go home, but no chance with ds1! Could be fun LOL sorting....

DS4 does seem OK atm- but it's 1 year down 3 to go.

Got to call for Measles jab in a mo as paid for that last week- nearly forgot!