Bloody hell. Ds has only been there 2 weeks and the school are already talking about exclusion :-(

[dustystar]

Ds has just made the transition to middle school and he is clearly finding it difficult which is hardly surprising. Apparently he is doing well in class - a bit disruptive but his teacher is pleased overall. Its in the playground where things are going to pieces.

Last friday he hurt 2 children and then yesterday he apparently head butted another child He says he is sure he didn't and I made sure he knew exactly what a head butt was and he does but he insists that he hit the other child with his hands (all over a bloody football as usual). However it happened in fromt of the head master and he is apparently adament that ds did headbutt this child.

Since ds can't acatually remember exactly what happened then we have to go by what the head says and not surprisingly he is treating the incident very seriously. He hasn't actually called me yet so ds has gone in this morning and I can only assume that the head has decided not to go down the route of exclusion at this stage but the whole thing has left me feeling really upset and tearful.

They were also talking about denying him his breaktime as a punishment. I said to his teacher that since he has ADHD and AS this would not be a good punishment for him as he really needs his physical run about time. I asked if they would do a football ban instead as all the incidents were around football. His last school did this and it worked well. His teacher was all for this idea but the Senco pulled a face. I pointed out that he would be more difiicult in the classroom if denied his physical breaks and they agreed but I'm not sure if there is anything I can do if the head insists on the full breaktime ban

Sorry i'm rambling i know but i am so upset about this. He's only been there 5 mins and already we've had a serious incident. He has a history of aggressive outbursts and he had a TA with him but somehow this still happened. Poor ds is so upset by it that he doesn't want to go to the school anymore as he says he doesn't think he will be able to be good all the time and the head told him that if there was another aggressive incident he would definitely be excluded

Lots of hugs and sympathy- it must be really hard for you.

The football ban sounds a good idea. I mean, the whole point of punishing, whether an Sn or an NT child, is that you don't do it in a way that makes life unbearable for the adult in charge

Could you speak to the TA at all about distracting him before these outbursts happen?

The TA thing is an issue in itself unfortunately. Ds statement says he should have a max of 3 TAs working with him. We decided on this as he finds change difficult and needs a TA to really know and understand him so they can prevent outbursts. The school however generally do subject based TAs so the children regularly have 7 in week.

I suspected that ds had more than 3 as he kept coming back with different names and that was the main reason I made the appointement to speak to his teacher. I wanted to have an official list from her of all his 1:1 TAs before I approached the Senco. His teacher confirmed that he has 6 or 7 She claims that she was unaware of the 3 max part of his statement but i know the Senco was fully aware of it.

I mentioned it briefly to the Senco yesterday but unfortunately the upset of the incident and the possible exclusion meant I didn't feel able to reallt talk it out with her then. I made it clear i would be following it up though so hopefully she'll have the sense to get it sorted out ASAP but i won't hold my breath.

So speaking to the TAs is difficult as he still has so many and tbh I think that the added stress of that on top of getting used to a new school is a big part of why he lost it in the playground.

Hi dusty, hug to you and your DS.

We had huge problems with DS's ex-school last year over the break time issue.

Just like your DS he was going out at break, and hurting other children. (he's 10 with AS). The school have a 3 strikes and you're excluded system, no ifs or buts! Needless to say DS was being excluded on a fairly regular basis.

The school decided that they would stop him going out a breaktimes and that he would stay in the classroom with his 1:1. Regardless of how well he had behaved that day he would be kept in.

DS was exceptionally miffed about this. He could not understand why when he had been good at school they would deny him his break. He was quite happy to accept missing a break as a punishment for a specific incident of bad behaviour, but not as a blanket policy.

School would not budge, DS was getting very upset, and was misbehaving as a direct response to a treatment he felt was not justified.

I ended up making an official complaint of discrimination, as he was being treated less favorably that his peers. School did eventually back down.

Well it looks like i will have to eat my words (well some of them) The senco has just called me to say she is sorting out the 3 TAs now and that apparently she didn't have the final copy of his statement when she organised his TAs and that she didn't recieve a copy of the final statement until this term Since i got mine back in March I have to say I am dubious about this explanation but so long as it is sorted out now then thats the most important thing.

Apparently the head will be calling me later to discuss yesterdays incident. What joy

Thanks sarah - its good to hear you managed to get them round to your way of thinking.

Well the head has finally rung me and I'm actually really quite happy with his response. Ds will be spending his breaktimes for the next week with either the head or the assistant head as well as with his TA. He will not be allowed to play with the other children in the playground but the adults will organise activities to do with him that will include physical activity. After that he will be back in the playground under close supervision.

I think its a shame he will lose out on playing with his peers completely for a whole week as he really needs that social interaction but at least if he is getting outside and running off some steam he will be able to cope in the classroom.

I was so worried that with all this talk of exclusion we were going to find ourselves in a similar situation to that of 4 years ago with ds first school - a school that just saw ds as a problem. From our brief talk it appears that this head really wants to support ds and is positive in his attitude towards him so thats great and a real weight off my mind.

Massive hugs.

I have nothing to add other than sympathy. My DS1 is only 4 and in Reception, but three days this week when I have picked him up I have been told that he has been disruptive, and that he has been hurting other children, things like kicking them, trying to trip them over, flicking them in the face. Just Monday they were telling me how wonderful his work was, it's all gone downhill since then.

I don't know what to do, he does know the "rules", but I think he gets tired and hungry, yesterday's incident was at 3.10pm. HE gets excluded from playground (which I agree is not the best thing because surely at 4 he NEEDS to run off some energy!)

He's been going full-time for a long time now, nearly a year, so I would have thought his body was used to a long day, so I don't know what's caused it.

Sorry to hijack your thread, but I feel your pain, so happy that it seems like it might be resolving.

Hijack away. Ds problems only came to light when he first started school and they were so crap that things deteriorated very quickly. You have my complete sympathy as that was without doubt the most difficult period of my life. I think thats why I started panicking yesterday when I heard the word exclusion so soon. I was worried that we were going to have the same sort of problems with this school and I felt sick at the thought of going through all that again. {{{hugs}}}

oh dusty im so sorry to hear things are tough at the minute, i know oyu have tried to do everything to help prepare DS for this transition. Keep on top of them, make sure they are making proper reports too as if things dont calm down you will need the proof to get DS more support. Fingers crossed next week will be better and im pleased to hear that the head is feeling positive still.
When are schools going to realise though that punishing a child with AS for days for one incident does not work. IME a punishment only works with DS if its immediate and on the same day! If its done later thatn that DS completely forgets why he is being punished and therefore does the same thing over and over again!

Haven't ready all of this dusty, still dealing with my own post-exclusion crisis (and trying to type on a keyboard full of crumbs - thanks ds) but wanted to send sympathies. It's so frustrating when you work so hard with your child then school seem to undo it all. Glad the Head seems reasonable and supportive.

I was a bit put out at J having to miss breaks last week but it's only for a few days and IMO it's the right thing to do, and no harm done. It's not just about the child being punished, other kids have to see that it's being done too. J actually did have a couple of outdoor breaks when certain staff were able to supervise closely, so he didn't miss out that much (you might suggest that to the Head, while she's keen to help), and at other breaks he was allowed a friend to stay inside with him and play games.

Hope your lad is feeling better now and manages OK on Monday. Same goes for you, too.

glad its sorted.

If our school had a 3 strikes system ds1 would never have made a week- probably not a Monday!

They tried giving ds1 a break ban but its effect was that ds1 tried to run away from chool, luckily dh and i were next door sorting infant school stuff for the Fayre and saw him go. He's 27/7 supervised so that would have been disastrous. As it was we arrranged for him to go into school until midday then come home. He sobbed all the way back.

He now has access to a time out zone manned bty TA's on a rota. It doesnt always worek- we're averaging 3 incidents a week (incident is actual harm to another child) but thats an improvement. In your case, a footie ban sounds brilliant.

I prefer the footie ban to a full break ban but the school want to go with him not having break. He will get outside and have some time to run off energy but he will have to stay with his TA and either the Head or assistant head - no peer interaction I'm not sure if the do a 3 strikes and you're excluded policy. I hope not! Still as streaky says, the other children (and their parents) need to see that he is being punished so its fair enough.

Thanks for the replies I'm feeling much better today although ds is manic. The paed called me yesterday afternoon and is organising a referral back to CAMHS as I have asked if they can organise counselling or anger management for him as his aggressive outbursts are an ongoing problem. She's also going to ask the ed psych to go in to offer some support to the school during this transitional stage. So lots of positives have come out of this and I'm focussing on those

Its such hard work when you are the parent of a child with SN who hurts other children isn't it. You completely understand why other people feel the way they do about the violence and yet you know that with your child the usual punitive measures are not only unhelpful but often actually harmful. Its a constant battle to find a balance.

It is hard- if sam belonged to someone else I'd be rather keen on his removl I guess. the fact is though that we have stated we are happy for him to go to a SN unit if it is needed, the LEA feel it isnt and fair enough but we are not obstructin anything.

If I am approached (less and less as people give up- and I dont think I am very approachable these days ) I have a stock line of 'Oh I am sorry i hope you're OK, Sam reallys houldnt have done that and I do hope you told a teacher'.

Not muc more I can do. And you neither.

Hopefully things will settle down for him. It is always difficult starting somewhere new, they have to adapt to him and he has to adapt to new people. It is trial and error to start with because every child is different and what works with one doesn't work with another. Once they get to know him it should be easier.